BCR Problem

Ken, hopefully some more will chime in. I myself do not think the BCR is bad. When you loosened the boards to pull the battery out something may have happened to change start up direction or maybe when the engine was  turned off that is where it may have sequenced from. I do not know if you can reset with a ZW. You can with a Z4000. Other then starting in reverse does everything else work the way it is suppose to.............Paul

Well, I'd first put the old battery back in, just in case.

You tried the engine with the very old white battery.  Why did you do that?  I think what you may have read was to replace the white battery before powering the engine with a new fully charged MTH green battery or you may use a BCR if that is your choice.  Key word being "BEFORE"   When you loosened the screws to raise the board, did you replace the mica insulator and screw with the insulating bushing properly?

John, I would not advise that as we have no status on what the battery was or weather he charged it first.  I have a bad feeling for his situation.  If it is running in reverse and the BCR is working, he needs to unlock the engines state of travel.

I have many PS1 ABA sets that are new.  Before I sell any, I always install a new fully charged battery to prevent any situations.  

You're probably right Marty, this is one of many situations where it's easy to diagnose if you're on the spot, not so easy to diagnose in ASCII.

I do not think a month goes by without this battery/BCR subject being hit on from some angle.  On a sidebar, MTH still has new PS-1 top and bottom boards in stock.    About 8 months ago a customer wanted new boards and he would not take any I had from upgrades.  I ordered new boards and he changed his mind stating he got a new set from fleabay and the seller told him how to put them in.  Guess what!!!, he forgot the mica insulator.   

Marty, I recently did the same fix for someone, he bought boards, put them in, and promptly cooked them.  OOPS!

Hi, I have a PSI engine i am fulling with and it has a round appears to be  metal cylinder that is not attached, it looks like some sort of spacer.... so can one of you post a picture of this mica insulator ??

Thanks.

The round aluminum cylinder is a spacer that goes under the bridge rectifier, there is a screw that goes in from the bottom, through the spacer, and through the bridge rectifier.

There is a regulator that projects down on the other end of the board and is typically bolted to a heatsink bracket.  That's where the insulating washers and the mica insulator are used.  The tab of that regulator MUST NOT contact frame ground.

No pictures...

Sorry guys, my modem gave up the ghost.  New modem is in place now. I was offline for a while. If I re-install the white battery and it exhibits the same thing as with the BCR.  Do I need to order new boards?  I believe the white battery was fully charged because before the change it operated perfectly.  Direction, sounds, everything.  I was trying to avoid a future problem but it sounds as though I created more problems.

Truthfully, you should never even turn the locomotive on with a white battery, must less try to operate it.  Those are so old and clearly way past their usable life that it's just not worth the risk.  We get countless posts about people killing their PS/1 boards because they tried to use the old battery.

When I get a PS/1 in for service, I check the battery before powering it up.  The white battery hits the trash and I install a new battery, then I test the locomotive.

John, I had a guy argue with me and insist his white battery is good as he can charge it.  I showed him what it did with a load.  He did not want to spring for the new battery.  I refuse to work on anything with a white battery.   He was not happy when I put the cab back on his locomotive and wished him well.

You do have to wonder.   Typically, I get them in batches and I just replace the battery as I work.  I've never had anyone question it, but there's always a first time.

AS an outsider looking in (I only own conventional engines), what exactly occurs when one of these engines is powered on with a less than perfect battery? Just curious...

On most of my PS1 engines, they have been converted over to ERR TMCC/RS.  I do not run DCS, only TMCC for control, along with conventional for my PW and some PS1 turbines.  With the turbines I have, PS1, I wish to retain the original QSI sounds, so I run in conventional with no problems.  You can run the PS1 with your Cab 1 by following the steps for use of key #9.  With this, I have double headed my MTH PS1 veranda Turbine with my Lionel TMCC and have no difficulty.  Would like to convert the PS1 to TMCC and run them as a lash-up.  But, it is a challenge to do as I am, enjoy the challenge and results.

Jesse   TCA

Certain PS/1 models will corrupt their memory if the battery dies during shutdown.  That requires a reset with a special chip, and sometimes that doesn't even work.

Not that I've taken apart a PS1 loco before, but can you use heavy electrical tape in place of the mica?

Or, is it a heat issue and that's why mica is used?

Thanks,

Fred

Yes, the mica insulator (there are other types as well) is an insulator that will also conduct heat.  The whole point of bolting the regulator down is to dissipate some of the heat that is generated.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

The round aluminum cylinder is a spacer that goes under the bridge rectifier, there is a screw that goes in from the bottom, through the spacer, and through the bridge rectifier.

There is a regulator that projects down on the other end of the board and is typically bolted to a heatsink bracket.  That's where the insulating washers and the mica insulator are used.  The tab of that regulator MUST NOT contact frame ground.

No pictures...

My spacer does not have a screw, do you know where i can get one  or what the size is..

Thanks.

MTH PS1 engines with their battery dependent electronics were, in my opinion, defective products that should have been recalled by MTH for repair or replacement. 

Well, it's a metric screw, about 1 1/4" long, don't remember the size as I have several in my hardware stash and I don't normally lose them.  Since I take a lot of PS/1 out for upgrades, I always have spare mounting hardware.

Well I tried the White battery and also a new Battery.  Same results with the white battery.  New battery, I can get to Neutral and Reverse.  I cannot get to forward.  I can only assume that the Mica Insulator did slip out when I originally installed the BCR.  What do I need to do to correct this.  What parts and where can I get them?

If you unbolted the regulator under the board to install the battery and then attached it without the mica insulator, you probably cooked something, I've seen that several times.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Well, it's a metric screw, about 1 1/4" long, don't remember the size as I have several in my hardware stash and I don't normally lose them.  Since I take a lot of PS/1 out for upgrades, I always have spare mounting hardware.

Ok, thanks. I didn't lose my screw either, there was no screw when i purchased it off ebay and then opened it up to change the battery...

So the board is just flopping around inside?  That screw through the large square bridge rectifier is the primary support for the PS/1 board.  That and the regulator bracket on the other end are frequently all the support the board has.

The MTH PS-1 was a great system.  No recall was needed.  Try starting and running your automobile with a bad battery.  Ford, Chevy, and many others would not pull product.