Best resettable fuse for TIU W/ Z1000

willy,

you asked my exact question!

I've started using a TIU on our modular layout.  I added fuses as per suggestions on the forum.  A simple car off track now stops everything.. followed by a hunt for a fuse, followed by climbing under a table to replace the fuse.

A quick circuit breaker would be very helpful.

I'm trying to figure out how a TIU is set up.  Before I fused everything, a short would spark a bit, I'd discover it, fix it, and move on.  The fuses in the TIU never blew.  I'm wondering if (internally) a TIU is basically like setting it up in passive, ie. the ins and outs are connected and the electronics to send command is "on the side" and injects signals into the in >>> out path.

Could it be the only thing between the ins and outs is a way for the emergency stop button to work (by cutting power between in and out)?

I'm thinking that for our modular setup, I would connect circuit-breaker-protected power (18v) to the tracks and just use the TIU in passive mode. Then, a short would pop a breaker and have no impact on the TIU.

Ed

i have been relying on my Z1000 CB to trip and it has worked quite well or i am just lucky. I definitely want to use what the experts are using.

The TIU fuse is 20 amps, most transformer breakers up to the 180W PH are 10 amp breaker.  The Z-1000 brick is 100W and a 6amp breaker. 

If your going to expand you may just want to buy a Lionel 180W Brick.  Great breaker and 10A of power.

Ed, why put the fuses under the layout, maybe an easier accessible one.   G

GGG,

when we set up the modular layout, the TIU is located on one of the carry cases, under the skirt that covers the legs

ed

i wonder if the guts to a GFI would make a good electronic circuit breaker.

These are very nice, very fast, and priced accordingly. In my limited bench testing they are faster than the PH 180 bricks, which are also very nice and very fast. These are pretty versatile also, for one you can add a remote push button reset or they can auto-reset. They have adjustable amperage settings, an alarm buzzer can be added, as well as LED's for indication of status of the device. Might be worth a look?   

PSX1-AC

If you search the forum here, there have been a couple other discussions about these devices. One has a video from a forum member of it's operation.  

willygee, I wouldn't think so.  A GFI opens on minute differences in current between hot and neutral, not on high amperage

If one shops around, one can get 5, 7.5, and 10 amp marine breakers for in the $7 range.  Try places like Defender Marine.  Those are what I use.  At that price, it's not worth trying to build your own.  After spending $250 for DCS, don't skimp on the pennies to protect it.

i am familiar with over current devices from Blue Seas...do you think there trip time is faster than the CB in the Z1000 brick?

I have no idea.  I have z4000.  On a dead short of high ampetage, z4000 pops first.  On lesser amperage shorts, breaker pops first.

I call to your attention fuse blowtime tables on www.bussman.com

PTCs will automatically reset after fault is cleared and power is turned off and back on.  Wire in series from red output to track.  Size for load.  Freight trains are about 4 amps and a couple of passenger trains could be 8 to 9 amps.

PTCs cost 35 - 84 cents each so you can fine tune your circuit protection and raise of lower values as needed.  Some modular layout runners install the 2 and 3 amp ones in their own engines to protect them from other runners faults.

I install these between pickups on passenger cars and between the tender and locomotive if both have power and are connected through the tether.  It protects the wiring from frying in a derailment that doesn't trip the breaker.

Willygee,

   RJR is correct, Scott also has these same kind of breakers, I use them on my layout and have never had a problem, easy to reset, cut the power and push the breaker back down into the bank, restart everything.

PCRR/Dave

I like the breakers because the button popped out gives a visual indication of the fact that the cicuit has been opened, where the circuit has been opened (breaker vice transformer or elsewhere), and leaves the power off until I have found the cause of the short and manually reset it.  This last means that there is no sparking when I am trying to replace wheels on a track.

GRJ highlights a good use for the PTC devices.  Car internal wiring is usually the thinnest in a circuit when the rollers are on circuits of different potential, and therefore attains the highest temperature for a given amp flow.

RJR,

   I agree with you 100%, I liked the visual reset button on the Scott Breakers,

whether it was a 5, 7.5 or a 10 Amp they all worked great, and were easy to use.

Long ago when DCS 1st came out, I purchased numerous sets for each of my different ZW, KW, transformers and I even put them in front of my Z4K, never ever had a problem with the TIU or an P2 engine.  Rich explains all this on the OGR video Guide to DCS, of course being the crazy professional engineer that I am, I had to also consult Barry, he was writing his book at that time and I wanted some indepth engineering for having to further safe guard my TIU, they both agreed so even before I constructed the 1st DCS layout I purchased the Scott Breakers.  The funny thing was I was shipped a faulty TIU and AIU NIB, Barry was the one who finally figured all that out, and MTH replaced the entire package.  This is the reason why I tell everyone to purchase a DCS package thru an approved dealer, even NIB the units can be faulty.  I learned my lesson early that Barry was going to be the expert on all the DCS units, although Rich's instructions are

fantastic on the Video Guide also, he does not go into the depth of engineering explanation that Barry does.

PCRR/Dave

what is a scott breaker?

Scott's Odds & Ends sells breakers manufactured by someone else.  They're on the web somewhere.

Train Electrics, LLC

gunrunner,

   John what happened to the lighter breaker banks, seems now Train Electronic, LLC is only selling 10 Ampers, bummer.  Guys needing lighter breakers will need to look else where.

PCRR/Dave

Dave, check this link.  Blue Seas push button breakers, which come in 2 terminal styles & many ratings, are under $6 and work great on a layout.

http://search.defender.com/?ex...n=circuit%20breakers

Here's the sublink where there is a selection, 3 amp to 30 amp, screw terminals

http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|328|2289980|2289982&id=1308063

Digikey has a wide assortment of breakers exactly the style used in MTH products.  That's where I get breakers to repair MTH transformers.

RJR,

   Thanks much for the info, however I like the 4 bank set up, how are you mounting your Breakers, please show me a picture.

gunrunner,

    John how about a web address, so I can see a picture and see how they are engineered.

PCRR/Dave

They don't seem to list the ones I got anymore, the are the Potter & Brumfield W28-X01A-6 units that I use in the Z-1000 bricks.  They're the exact replacement for the ones that are in there.

I guess so, and here I thought it was just my age that put me over the hill!

Could that be a W28-XQ1A-6?  If so, you may not have topped the hill just yet

Maybe just a typo...

Dave, I have a large control panel having the area covered by each TIU circuit separately (2 are combined).  Above it are the transformers. Next to it are the TIUs.  In front of the TIUs is the box shown on attached photo.  The fuses are redundant for two of the 6 circuits I use

That would be them, I read it right off the breaker and obviously the Q wasn't obvious.  I was surprised they stopped carrying them.

RJR,

   I take it you made your own Breaker Box set up, and it looks like it took up some serious space.  I have 4 sets of the Scott Breaker banks with 4 breakers in each bank, and they take up very little space.  Right now I am hoping none of my old Scott breaker banks go bad, using different ones is going to change my power station greatly, from the looks of it.

Thanks for the look see I really appreciate it.

PCRR/Dave

You can see 2 sets of the Scott Breakers at the base of my transformers,

the 2 you can't see are in between the transformers, all this took up minimal space, and the breakers worked great. 

It's slightly longer than the length of a TIU, & the top extends over the TIU's input terminals.  I wanted to leave extra room in case I added more circuits and there was no need for the extra effort that would have been involved in shrinking it and having to squeeze in the 14-gauge wires

RJR,

   Good job I thought you constructed the box your self.

PCRR/Dave

I'll note the GunrunnerJohn's part is also available in 10 amp from Digikey.

 W28-XQ1A-10  is 3.26 each or 25 @ 2.86 each so $71.40 for 25.