@superwarp1 posted:

She will run again but not for the UP.

Does Mr. Sandburg's operation have THAT much money????  Remember that many, MANY components have been removed from 3985, including the tender, and are now on 4014.

Railroading Heritage of Midwest America, Union Pacific agree to donation of Challenger, other locomotives, cars

@Hot Water posted:

Does Mr. Sandburg's operation have THAT much money????  Remember that many, MANY components have been removed from 3985, including the tender, and are now on 4014.

Forgive me if I violate terms with this quote.

"RRHMA has already lined up significant financial commitments for the rebuilding of the two steam locomotives, with a founding grant from John J. Gray, who established his “UP in Smoke Foundation” to fund historic preservation of UP steam locomotives. It will be setting up a two-for-one matching donation program, with every dollar pledged matched with two dollars by other donors."

pulled from the article.

It will be interesting to see what tender the UPRR donated along with 3985.

@J 611 posted:

It will be interesting to see what tender the UPRR donated along with 3985.

Most likely 4014's.  There's no reason to swap them as 4014's old tender needs work to bring it up to current requirements.

Rusty

Awesome! Sounds like a great situation.

4014/3985/844 together some day? UP trackage? Iowa Interstate trackage? Shows at the Silvis complex?

Some good steam restoration things are happening around the country. Reports of its death have been greatly exaggerated.

The main thing is 3985 will be in the hands of a group willing to restore 3985 again- and ALOT of people love 3985, so she will eventually be running again someday.

Geno

The article stated that 4014 is the "world's largest steam locomotive".   It should have read "world's largest currently operational steam locomotive."    As the real grand daddy is the 2-6-6-6 __________________________.         

Ans: Same as this posters profile name. 

This is exciting to hear about. I like big steam. I'm just as excited about the big diesel!!!

I've never ridden up front on either. I think someone's going to have a great job operating them. I hope it happens.

Of course, the first thing is this equipment has to do is get down to Silvis.

I wonder if they're going to be able to move the 2-10-2 on it's own wheels (I doubt it's got roller bearings) or have to take it apart like the 643 and ship it as a kit.  It might be too tall to ship on a flat car in one piece, unless there's a depressed center flat out there with about a 55' deck.

But, I'm just speculating...  Shipping it for the pro's to decide.

Rusty

@Allegheny posted:

The article stated that 4014 is the "world's largest steam locomotive".   It should have read "world's largest currently operational steam locomotive."    As the real grand daddy is the 2-6-6-6 __________________________.         

Ans: Same as this posters profile name. 

The B&O EM-1 weren't no slouch either!

Neither of you two guys are close. The really "largest and most powerful" steam locomotive ever built was the DM&IR Yellowstone!

Well, I hope it turns out well for 3985 if nothing more to honor those who originally got her running to the great peop6who care for her until the current group at UP came along. The Challengers are my favorite UP steamers.

Just curious would a tender swap with another static Challenger that is already setup for oil be better than converting the 4014 tender?

@Rusty Traque posted:

Of course, the first thing is this equipment has to do is get down to Silvis.

I wonder if they're going to be able to move the 2-10-2 on it's own wheels (I doubt it's got roller bearings) or have to take it apart like the 643 and ship it as a kit.  It might be too tall to ship on a flat car in one piece, unless there's a depressed center flat out there with about a 55' deck.

But, I'm just speculating...  Shipping it for the pro's to decide.

Rusty

I know that when Reading 2100 got shipped to Cleveland it was just on a heavy duty flat car, not one with a depressed center. Some photos here https://www.americansteamrailr...org/photos-2100-asr/ because their website is a pain to link an individual photo. Although I think it was a close thing not because of overall height but because of the center of gravity.

So these guys are out in Illinois somewhere? Not too familiar with where it is because I haven't looked up it on the map. I wonder how much life was left in the boiler, good to know though that they have facilities to be able to work on it if they have to do so.

@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

So these guys are out in Illinois somewhere? Not too familiar with where it is because I haven't looked up it on the map. I wonder how much life was left in the boiler, good to know though that they have facilities to be able to work on it if they have to do so.

Silvis, IL is far western Illinois. Close to Davenport, Iowa. It’s interesting that so much UP “heritage” equipment is being sent off line, to a museum that doesn’t exist yet. The Silvis shop is pretty huge, but I hope it’s still in good shape. NRE may not have done much maintenance recently since they knew they were leaving. The NRE shop tracks were used for storage, not active switching. Maybe a lot of work for a museum staff that doesn’t exist yet. The turntable and roundhouse were torn down eons ago by Rock Island.

Is something wrong with DD40X 6936 that UP is getting rid of it? Why not toss out the E’s too if wheel sets are so hard to find?

@naresar posted:

I know that when Reading 2100 got shipped to Cleveland it was just on a heavy duty flat car, not one with a depressed center. Some photos here https://www.americansteamrailr...org/photos-2100-asr/ because their website is a pain to link an individual photo. Although I think it was a close thing not because of overall height but because of the center of gravity.

thanks for sharing those pics.

@TexasSP posted:

Well, I hope it turns out well for 3985 if nothing more to honor those who originally got her running to the great peop6who care for her until the current group at UP came along. The Challengers are my favorite UP steamers.

Just curious would a tender swap with another static Challenger that is already setup for oil be better than converting the 4014 tender?

The only other challenger in the world, is on display in North Platte, Nebraska, and that was the "loner" of the tender oil bunker for 3985, when she was converted to oil burning, back in 1989/1990. Thus, there is no way to put an oil bunker back into the tender from 4014, since 4014 now has the converted/overhauled tender from 3985. Best guess would to use the coal tender from 4014, and return 3985 back to coal burning.

Also, the bigger issue for returning 3985 back to service would be the FRA mandated 15 year inspection, plus all new superheater units (which were sent to scrap by the current manager), and replacement of all the various necessary appliances that have been removed for 4014.

This is the Silvis, IL main shop building. That’s not the end of that shop building to to the left. It’s huge. All the tracks to the right, you should see them in the summer! Actually, you can’t see them hidden under the weeds.

From another angle. There’s a lot of track between here and the shop building.

@Hot Water posted:

Well hate to hear that and forgot about the scrap issue.   Many other things I could say but it would rile up the sensitive folks on here.

Let's not start bashing the current UP team.  That isn't  productive.  Let's just celebrate that the 3985 once again has a bright future.

@Hot Water posted:

. Best guess would to use the coal tender from 4014, and return 3985 back to coal burning

Is this a difficult task?

I "assume" there are blueprints regarding the original coal burning firebox design?

Hot Water has a point above.  The DMIR 2-8-8-4's may really be the "sleeper" in the lot.  I was working on some comparative simulations with Gene Huddleston and it looked like the M3/M4's may have bested the H8's, although at a slightly lower speed.  Dr. H passed away before I got the article finalized, and after his passing I shelved the project because I thought no one would listen.    Maybe I'll reactivate it.  But pay attention to what Hot Water said.  For one, I believe he knows what he's talking about.

@RickO posted:

Is this a difficult task?

I "assume" there are blueprints regarding the original coal burning firebox design?

I'm interested in this as well Rick. I do remember him explaining how Consolidations being changed into Northerns some time back. I thought it was just adding wheels, but it was a major overhaul to do it. I wonder if this would be a big overhaul stripping it down to the bear bones?

Take a deep breath folks.  Nothing is going to happen overnight.  The RHMA site in Silvis hasn't been developed yet, the UP equipment has to be prepped and logistics have to be planned.  Then the equipment has to make the 800 plus mile trip.  There's no guarantee all the equipment will move in one train, either.  It might or might not.  Again, that's for the pros to decide. Once the equipment shows up in Silvis, a complete evaluation needs to be done before any restoration can begin.

It's gonna take a while before anything happens.

Rusty

@Rusty Traque posted:

Take a deep breath folks.  Nothing is going to happen overnight.  The RHMA site in Silvis hasn't been developed yet, the UP equipment has to be prepped and logistics have to be planned.  Then the equipment has to make the 800 plus mile trip.  There's no guarantee all the equipment will move in one train, either.  It might or might not.  Again, that's for the pros to decide. Once the equipment shows up in Silvis, a complete evaluation needs to be done before any restoration can begin.

It's gonna take a while before anything happens.

Rusty

It really is quite an endeavor. Steve Sandberg is a driven guy, though. He gets things done. The possibilities sure are cool, anyway. Will be interesting to see how things move along. Hope RRHMA makes it a P/R thing and keeps the public informed.

The whole story of 3985 is cool, actually. Those guys at UP just fixing her up in their spare time, then running her like that. Wish those kind of days were still here.

3985 enthusiasts have a place to donate their money now.

@RickO posted:Is this a difficult task?

JI "assume" there are blueprints regarding the original coal burning firebox design?

The blueprints for the late Challenger locomotives have been scanned by the Union Pacific Historical Society and were available on DVD ROM (currently sold out, but the digital files are obviously still around).  That wouldn’t be any impediment.  

I don’t know why you would convert the locomotive back to coal-burning, though. Oil seems like the better way to go for logistical reasons, and it could be that the parts required to restore it to coal operation may or may not have been retained.  They would be at least as difficult to manufacture as the fuel bunker and the plumbing to fire with oil.

🤣

@sgriggs posted:

I don’t know why you would convert the locomotive back to coal-burning, though. Oil seems like the better way to go for logistical reasons, and it could be that the parts required to restore it to coal operation may or may not have been retained.  They would be at least as difficult to manufacture as the fuel bunker and the plumbing to fire with oil.

The last time the 3985 came through Utah as a coal burner, there were small fires all along the route.  The rumor/story  is they were asked not to return until they were oil fired

@RickO posted:

Is this a difficult task?

I "assume" there are blueprints regarding the original coal burning firebox design?

I don't know for sure but I believe it would be easier to fabricate an oil tank, which is just welded sheet metal that sits inside the coal bunker, than to reinstall the coal burning apparatus on the locomotive and rebuild the stoker engine. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the coal grates and other associated components were trashed by the current regime, like the superheater units were.

Don't forget the reason for 3985's oil conversion in the first place. She was a "firebug" and was banned from operating over most of the railroad due to her propensity for starting lineside fires. I witnessed some small fires at Buford on Sherman Hill  during her final excursion as a coal burner. She was constantly trailed by a hi-rail truck tasked with putting out fires before they grew and spread,

Many may not know it but the 4000s and 3900s had water spray nozzles at the back of the tender to protect against fires caused by burning cinders. They sprayed across an area about 100' wide and as far as 5 cars from the rear of the tender. Remember, there were still cars with wooden superstructures and also flammable lading in open top cars.

@Nick Chillianis posted:

I don't know for sure but I believe it would be easier to fabricate an oil tank, which is just welded sheet metal that sits inside the coal bunker, than to reinstall the coal burning apparatus on the locomotive and rebuild the stoker engine. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the coal grates and other associated components were trashed by the current regime, like the superheater units were.

Don't forget the reason for 3985's oil conversion in the first place. She was a "firebug" and was banned from operating over most of the railroad due to her propensity for starting lineside fires. I witnessed some small fires at Buford on Sherman Hill  during her final excursion as a coal burner. She was constantly trailed by a hi-rail truck tasked with putting out fires before they grew and spread,

I would agree.  Let's not forget 3985's oil tank came from the static display 3977.  I'm sure it was less expensive and quicker to negotiate for a tank on a locomotive that's never going to use it than build one from scratch.  And it was also expedient to swap tenders between the 3985 and 4014 to meet a deadline.

RHMA has no stated deadlines to return 3985 to operation.  They apparently will be able to take the time and assign resources and needed outside contractors to return the locomotive to operation.

The talent is out there in the preservation world to do the job.  It will take time and money.  I doubt RHMA is going to do the job totally in house.

But again, nothing's going to happen until the locomotives are evaluated and in Silvis.

Rusty

@Hot Water posted:

Neither of you two guys are close. The really "largest and most powerful" steam locomotive ever built was the DM&IR Yellowstone!

Yes!

Do not under estimate Steve Sandberg!

@Jeff B. Haertlein posted:

Do not under estimate Steve Sandberg!

I'm sure he's done his homework, knows what 3895 has and doesn't have.  Which tender he's getting, etc, etc.  I'm sure Steve will give a interview with Trains sooner or later and then we'll know his game plan.

I was doing some looking but couldn't find anything definitive on trackage and operations. Where is RHMA able to operate locomotives and excursions?

@TexasSP posted:

I was doing some looking but couldn't find anything definitive on trackage and operations. Where is RHMA able to operate locomotives and excursions?

"Sandberg said RRHMA will initially be talking to regional and short line railroads to explore opportunities to operate the steam locomotives after restoration."   From the Trains Article

@superwarp1 posted:

"Sandberg said RRHMA will initially be talking to regional and short line railroads to explore opportunities to operate the steam locomotives after restoration."   From the Trains Article

I saw that but it's referring to future state. I was asking about current status.

@Hot Water posted:

"FRA mandated 15 year inspection"

Hot Water, does 15 years mean it would be that long of an inspection since it is in depth looking through the locomotive? Is that the entire locomotive from the ground up, or just particular areas such as the boiler and piping?

@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

"FRA mandated 15 year inspection"

Hot Water, does 15 years mean it would be that long of an inspection since it is in depth looking through the locomotive? Is that the entire locomotive from the ground up, or just particular areas such as the boiler and piping?

It's just a little bit of paperwork...

Rusty

Yeah, I did see that on the government page, but I was wondering what it all comes down to? Saw metallurgy, and other such things which of course make sense. Is the metal deteriorating, etc, etc. I know that would be one of the things, just wanted to understand what the timeline is.