I am curious about the funding for the restoration project , does Union Pacific pay for the work ?
Is the historical society responsible for funding it , both parties are separate entities , so just was wondering
how that is worked out , I am sure there are some donations as well .
Please comment , thanks Bernie
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At one time it was said that a private source was backing it, but no further information has been published
I am curious about the funding for the restoration project , does Union Pacific pay for the work ?
Yes.
Is the historical society responsible for funding it ,
No.
both parties are separate entities , so just was wondering
how that is worked out , I am sure there are some donations as well .
No. No donations to the UP, since it is a corporate funded project, just like their entire steam program. Any donations to the museum in California, would naturally go towards the maintenance of their own displays.
By the way, the UP actually "traded" a diesel locomotive and a caboose in return for regaining total ownership of the 4014.
Please comment , thanks Bernie
The trade included a boxcar too
So, with all the upheaval at the U.P. steam program, mentioned in other texts, does anyone know what is actually going on in the U.P. program? Is the #844 actually being restored at this point? Has the #3985 been completely shelved? And, what about the #4014; has actual restoration/rebuilding actually begun? I know that the present head of the steam program has a hatfull of problems of his own but does the entire U.P. steam program hinge on this fellow's resolution of his problems?
Someone commented that for some 150 years of it's history, the Union Pacific has always had at least one steam locomotive, capable of being operated, until now. Pretty sad situation, I'd say.
Paul Fischer
So, with all the upheaval at the U.P. steam program, mentioned in other texts, does anyone know what is actually going on in the U.P. program?
Yes.
Is the #844 actually being restored at this point?
No.
Has the #3985 been completely shelved?
Yes.
And, what about the #4014; has actual restoration/rebuilding actually begun?
No. They are now waiting for complete asbestos removal, by an outside contractor.
I know that the present head of the steam program has a hatfull of problems of his own but does the entire U.P. steam program hinge on this fellow's resolution of his problems?
Yes.
Someone commented that for some 150 years of it's history, the Union Pacific has always had at least one steam locomotive, capable of being operated, until now. Pretty sad situation, I'd say.
You are indeed correct.
Paul Fischer
Does that mean UP ran no public excursions last year or this year with no operating steam or did they use diesel and run public trips? Sounds like there's going to be a bit of downtime until smoke is seen on UP again. and they don't allow foreign locomotives, so borrowing SP 4449 is out of the question. Funny that 4449 can't run on its home rails because UP absorbed SP. Well there are other passenger carrying railroads like a certain national park in PA that are steamless right now. It's just that federal regs require rebuilds after so many years.
Does that mean UP ran no public excursions last year or this year with no operating steam or did they use diesel and run public trips?
Ever since the beginning of Amtrak, it has been against the lay for UP to sell passenger tickets to the public. The UP has, however "leased their train" to various sponsoring organizations, such as the Denver Post Newspaper, and THEY sell tickets to the public.
Sounds like there's going to be a bit of downtime until smoke is seen on UP again.
Yes, but UP still handled the Denver Post Cheyenne Frontier Days Special, this past July, with Diesels. The same thing will happen in 2015.
and they don't allow foreign locomotives, so borrowing SP 4449 is out of the question.
That's on old rumor. SP 4449 doubleheaded with UP 844 back in 2007.
Funny that 4449 can't run on its home rails because UP absorbed SP.
The Friends of SP4449 has never asked to run on UP lines, i.e. the former SP, since there is no place to go for a passenger excursion, and return back to Portland all in one day. The 4449 group has an excellent working relationship with BNSF, what with the highly scenic Columbia River line.
Well there are other passenger carrying railroads like a certain national park in PA that are steamless right now.
That isn't a "passenger carrying railroad". Steamtown is a National Park.
It's just that federal regs require rebuilds after so many years.
Federal Regulations require extensive INSPECTION of steam locomotive boilers ever 1472 days of operation or 15 years, which ever comes first. There are also Federal regulations requiring extensive INSPECTIONS of aircraft engines, both piston and jet.
The inspections just tend to find deficiencies, requiring some amount of overhauling to bring the locomotives back into compliance.
What would your reaction be to a boiler explosion because someone thought the Federal oversight was too intrusive, was ruining people's fun, and just let the locomotives run?
What would your reaction be to a boiler explosion because someone thought the Federal oversight was too intrusive, was ruining people's fun, and just let the locomotives run?
You mean like the boiler failure on the Gettysburg Railroad that actually started the current FRA regulations?
From all that I have read here and elsewhere on the web Federal inspections may be the biggest problem with the current UP steam program. And with all their current problems with personnel issues and locomotive maintenance needs that is saying something.
Based on what I have read form several sources with experience in steam locomotive operations and maintenance the 844s boiler could not have gotten into the condition it is in suddenly. It should have been seen and corrected at several earlier 31 and 92 day inspections. Either those inspections were not performed properly because the personnel involved didn't know any better or the reports filed with the FRA were false. Neither of those options gives the regulators who receive those reports much confidence in future reports from the same management. But if nothing operates no more forms need to be filed......
We will eventually see how this all works out. But with three steam locomotives out of service, an E9 with flat spots and condemned wheels and the possible loss of unique DD40 parts there might not be too much to see for a while.
How do Streamliners pulled by SD70s with power cars sound for 2015?
Or for steam how about 261 as a UP FEF-4 or an invitation to 4449 to run the Shasta route?
From what I've been able to read on this and other forums on the net the supposed UP steam restoration program is a complete and utter SHAM. I think UP corporate has absolutely no intention of returning any of the steam locomotives they currently own to steam operation - now or anytime in the near future. Waiting for a 'boiler asbestos abatement' on 4014 or 'employee personal problems to be resolved' with the head of the steam program is nothing more than a convenient way for UP management to shelve any future steam restoration programs without unduly upsetting the public. Those of us who enjoy seeing steam locomotives in action should stop kidding ourselves as to UP's good intentions and more importantly stop thinking of UP as a 'savior' of their steam operations.
NYC: While I haven't heard anything to the contrary; Let's all hope and pray that your prognostication is incorrect. The U.P.'s steam program, was always an important part of it's public relations efforts. It would be great to see a Big Boy, or possibly the #844 or the #3985 in some of their present day commercials. Those would really create attention for the U.P.
In the meantime, the N.S. seems to be attracting all the attention. Kudos to them.
Paul Fischer
From what I've been able to read on this and other forums on the net the supposed UP steam restoration program is a complete and utter SHAM. I think UP corporate has absolutely no intention of returning any of the steam locomotives they currently own to steam operation - now or anytime in the near future. Waiting for a 'boiler asbestos abatement' on 4014 or 'employee personal problems to be resolved' with the head of the steam program is nothing more than a convenient way for UP management to shelve any future steam restoration programs without unduly upsetting the public. Those of us who enjoy seeing steam locomotives in action should stop kidding ourselves as to UP's good intentions and more importantly stop thinking of UP as a 'savior' of their steam operations.
Well, I guess that is your opinion.
and they don't allow foreign locomotives, so borrowing SP 4449 is out of the question.
That's on old rumor. SP 4449 doubleheaded with UP 844 back in 2007.
You're misinformed. 4449 did doublehead with 844 (saw it myself), but it only ran on the BNSF (with UP trackage rights but it's still BNSF track) once 844 and train got to Portland.
While the 4449 crew knows the UP steam crew and they get along, 4449 has not been invited to run on UP mains and I know for sure they have asked in the past. I got that directly from the crew and have talked with Doyle himself a couple of times briefly on that point. UP was happy as could be to get all those engines out of their yard near Milwaukie Oregon so they could tear the roundhouse down, but that's another story. They're much better off where they are now, anyway.
While the 4449 crew knows the UP steam crew and they get along, 4449 has not been invited to run on UP mains and I know for sure they have asked in the past. I got that directly from the crew and have talked with Doyle himself a couple of times briefly on that point. UP was happy as could be to get all those engines out of their yard near Milwaukie Oregon so they could tear the roundhouse down, but that's another story. They're much better off where they are now, anyway.
Sorry, but you are not quite correct. I have been an integral part of the 4449 crew since 1975, and I can assure you that the "4449 crew", including one Doyle McCormack, has NEVER "asked to operate on the Union Pacific RR". Plus, in 1998, the Union Pacific actually asked McCormack, if it would be possible to operate the 4449 down to Roseville, CA for the big "Grand Opening & Dedication" of the new Jerry R. Davis freight yard. Naturally, the response back to UP was in the affirmative, and the slow process of working out the details proceeded. However, due to unforeseen construction delays, plus the official announcement of the California State Railroad Museum's "Railfair '99", produced a schedule conflict. In the end, the UP sent the 844 & 3985 doubleheader out to Roseville early, the J.R.Davis yard was dedicated with 844 and 3985 posed pilot to pilot, and SP4449 operated over the BNSF to Sacramento for Railfair '99.
Now there may have been various "sponsoring organizations" that have contacted someone on UP about operating 4449 excursions over former Southern Pacific trackage, and were subsequently turned down. But, nobody on the "4449 crew" has ever approached the UP about operating 4449 on UP main lines. Besides, the BNSF Columbia River Gorge has far greater potential for one-day passenger excursions anyway, than ANY location on the former SP trackage.
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