BL-2 cab interior

Thanks!  So what I want to know, is on this picture, is this wall clear across the cab?  If so, wouldn't it make the windows behind the cab doors worthless?

Ed Jakl posted:

Thanks!  So what I want to know, is on this picture, is this wall clear across the cab?

Yes, that is the Fireman's side of the cab. That view is essentially what is seen when sitting in the Engineer's seat.

 If so, wouldn't it make the windows behind the cab doors worthless?

No, because by looking out those rear windows, the Engineer and Fireman are able to look rearward down the narrow upper part of the carbody, and view the train behind them, on curves. Thus, they do NOT have to stick their head out the side windows, as on an F or E Unit cab.

 

But behind the Fireman's seat it looks like there is a green wall (behind the door, perpendicular to the door).  Would that not block any backward view through those windows?

Ed Jakl posted:

But behind the Fireman's seat it looks like there is a green wall (behind the door, perpendicular to the door).  Would that not block any backward view through those windows?

As I remember, the windows facing rearward are above that green door, which you referred to as "a green wall". Note the hinges on that "green wall", as well as the hinges on the side door.

Hot Water posted:

Ed Jakl posted:

But behind the Fireman's seat it looks like there is a green wall (behind the door, perpendicular to the door).  Would that not block any backward view through those windows?

As I remember, the windows facing rearward are above that green door, which you referred to as "a green wall". Note the hinges on that "green wall", as well as the hinges on the side door.

AH!  That makes sense then.  Yes, I see the hinges and what looks like it could be a window on "the green wall".  So that must be the electrical cabinet or something?  Behind that would not be a full cab facing the other way would it?

645 posted:

Ed Jakl posted:

Thanks!  So what I want to know, is on this picture, is this wall clear across the cab?  If so, wouldn't it make the windows behind the cab doors worthless?

Following that logic then the windows on the cab doors of an E or F-unit (same goes for the Alco FA1, etc.) are also worthless. Imagine if your 4-door sedan did not have windows in the rear doors - wouldn't visibility be worse or at the very least expand your blind spot? Of course if one is a truck driver who hauls a box trailer maybe one is not used to not having side/rearward visibility to the point where "extra side windows" must be worthless.

While above image is of a F-unit (or an E-unit) the BL2 is similar. The cab door windows are for visibility to outside plus illumination of cab interior. The windows/portholes behind the cab on as-built E and F-units were to help illuminate the interior  - and yes. they had light bulbs in there too. Also note the cab door window crank (it's also present in the BL2 shot above) - the window could be lowered and raised. Obviously when lowered would help with ventilation plus help the fireman grab hooped up train orders if the engineer didn't want to do it himself or didn't want the door opened for grabbing orders if it was a cold winter day.

And if these cab door windows were really that worthless one would think when a unit was in the shop for rebuilding and/or upgrading the railroads would have blanked off the windows - especially when it became a requirement per federal law to have FRA complaint glass (circa 1970's?) in ALL cab windows. That reminds me - this is the very reason early GE U-boats and some SD45's (with optional cab side windows) had the extra fixed cab side windows plated over with steel - to reduce the cost of replacing all the cab window glass. Those windows were worthless - not so for cab door windows apparently.

Oh, I was not referring to the window in the cab doors.  I know they are needed.  I was referring to the cab windows that are behind the cab doors, which are indeed unique to the BL-2.

On that WM unit above- that's the first instance I've seen of such a control stand with a 24RL brake.  I've seen some later-model Geeps with a similar stand, but basically just the controller portion.  That looks like the full stand usually seen with 26L air, on later units.  I wonder if it's original?

mlavender480 posted:

On that WM unit above- that's the first instance I've seen of such a control stand with a 24RL brake.  I've seen some later-model Geeps with a similar stand, but basically just the controller portion.  That looks like the full stand usually seen with 26L air, on later units.  I wonder if it's original?

Absolutely not.  The first appearance of the "cash register" EMD control stand was in 1956 or '57.  There were variations, and the earliest ones were small.  The full-size cash register control stand appeared on GP18/GP20/SD18/SD24 units.  The small one was still used on switchers and late-model F/FP/E cab units.  The odd looking control stand in the other shots is original, and unique in domestic EMD locomotives.

I think it would be difficult to use that 24 brake valve, and have to bail off the independent, when they are so far apart, I guess you could lay your left elbow on the independent to hold it down, but some of those had quite a bit of spring to overcome. I've used 24's on GP & CF7's when Santa Fe had them, but the independent and the automatic were mounted close together.

Ed Jakl posted:

Thanks!  So what I want to know, is on this picture, is this wall clear across the cab?  If so, wouldn't it make the windows behind the cab doors worthless?

Apparently there is much more to the cab behind the doorway than meets the eye in the above photo.

locopilot750 posted:

I think it would be difficult to use that 24 brake valve, and have to bail off the independent, when they are so far apart, I guess you could lay your left elbow on the independent to hold it down, but some of those had quite a bit of spring to overcome. I've used 24's on GP & CF7's when Santa Fe had them, but the independent and the automatic were mounted close together.

They are indeed placed some distance apart, and that was certainly not ideal.  I would imagine that -- when BL2's were running in road service -- many Engineers did indeed use their left arm to actuate so that the engine brakes would not apply along with the train brakes.  (Or insert a wedge between the bail and the plunger of the independent brake valve.)

However, the independent brake valve is in the ideal position for use when switching, and most Engineers in that era leaned out the window (instead of using mirrors as is common today).  In 1948 and before, the standard position for placement of the automatic brake valve on electric and diesel-electric locomotives other than switchers was in the right front corner of the cab, and nobody on the BL2 design team thought to question it.  In fact, as you may recall, the Alco RSD15's of the Santa Fe 800 (9800) Class had the 26-C automatic brake valve right there in the front.  Fortunately, when the GP7 was designed, they did re-think the brake valve placement.  The brake valve placement on the F7's was convenient for road service -- using the right hand to move the automatic brake valve and, by leaning forward a little, the left hand was in a natural position to depress the bail on the independent brake valve.  But for switching, it was very awkward when moving backward.

At least they did see the BL2 as a road locomotive instead of a switcher, and therefore specified 24-RL air brake schedule, with its superior features for train handling, such as First Service position.

The main purpose of what appears to be a second set of cab windows behind the side door is to allow natural light to illuminate the steps and the engine control panel during daylight.  The BL2, like E-units and F-units, had a raised cab floor.  Thus, there was a set of steps inside the engine room, right behind the rear cab doors.  Any need to do something in the engine room while running was usually taken care of right there where the engine control panel was located, thus more light would be desirable.  That window served the same purpose as the front porthole of an F7 or an E8.  I believe the engine room doors on both sides of the cab as-built, had a  glass window to look through to the rear windshield (which originally had two tandem overlapping windshield wipers with one directly driven by the shaft of the Sprague 'Air-Push' 90 degree wiper motor and the other driven by a connecting rod).  In the photo of the rear windshield in this thread, the connecting rod and second wiper have been removed, but you can still see the stubby crank that drove the linkage.  The rear windshield was actually in the engine room, not in the cab.

Thanks everyone for your help and great information.  Great group of knowledgeable people on this forum.

 (Or insert a wedge between the bail and the plunger of the independent brake valve.)

 OH OH!... you may have to assign yourself 10 demerit marks.   How many horsepower were these things?

Gregg posted:

How many horsepower were these things?

The BL1 and BL2 were 1500 horsepower, just like an F3, F7, and GP7.