Blowing Out The Steam Cylinders

Looks like Bob Krieger and none other than NASTY in the fireman's seat. 

Railfan Brody posted:

Hey Hot Water, do you recognize any of these guys?

Yes, the Engineer is Bob Krieger.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like they are testing the cylinder cox and valve gear.

First, they are "Cylinder Cocks", and no, they are not really "testing" them. The Engineer is blowing the condensation out of the cylinders, thus the valve gear is moved from forward to reverse, and the throttle is cracked each tim.

Let me know if you know whose all there. The only person in the UP steam program that I can recognize is Ed Dickens, but he's not in this video. Enjoy!

This video was shot well prior to him being "involved" on the Steam Crew. Note that the locomotive has the "Wind Wings" (the proper name on the UP for smoke lifters or 'elephant ears'), which were only mounted on 3985 for one special trip to commemorate the 50th anniversary of a Rocky Mountain excursion, back in the late 1940s or early 1950s.

-Brody

I will admit, 3985 looks pretty sharp with the smoke deflectors.

Railfan Brody posted:

I will admit, 3985 looks pretty sharp with the smoke deflectors.

Well, maybe, however it is a real bear to see around them for either the Engineer and/or Fireman, as they were MUCH longer than the "Wind Wings" on the 800 class 4-8-4s. Generally the UP used the Wind Wings only on oil fired Challengers.

Those smoke deflectors were nice.

Hot Water posted:

Railfan Brody posted:

I will admit, 3985 looks pretty sharp with the smoke deflectors.

Well, maybe, however it is a real bear to see around them for either the Engineer and/or Fireman, as they were MUCH longer than the "Wind Wings" on the 800 class 4-8-4s. Generally the UP used the Wind Wings only on oil fired Challengers.

I can't even imagine.  The 1897 Baldwin 65 ton 4-4-0 I run, obviously a relatively small engine compared to a challenger, has bad enough blind spots.  I can't imagine a way longer boiler, with the wind wings out at the end.

Moat regular engineman knew the road so well that they could probably make it over   blind folded in case of fog, snow etc. . You hear things that give you a clue, greasers ,switches. lights. crossing bells etc.

Anyway I can see how  the smoke deflectors  might be a pain in the butt.

Question ...can you not blow out the  cylinders on the fly opened from a valve or tap  inside the engine?

It's not necessarily a matter of "knowing the road." It's also a matter of being able to see things on the track that shouldn't be there.

Well in fog or a snow storm it 's not going to make  much  difference if things are on the track that shouldn't be there. There're going to get hit. If track speed is 50, that's the speed most will go. I'm not sure what you mean? things? like a tree down . washout? Flagman?

Al of the above, and many others.

You make it sound like the engine crew doesn't need to see anything that's in front of them, just because they "know the road."

Gregg posted:

 

Question ...can you not blow out the  cylinders on the fly opened from a valve or tap  inside the engine?

Sort of a confusing question:

1) the Engineer's control of the cylinder cocks is obviously a "remote control" for open and closed, which my be purely mechanical, compressed air, or steam. The cylinder cocks may thus be opened any time the Engineer desires.

2) There really is no need to "blow out the cylinders on the fly", since by that time the cylinders are already VERY hot and thus no condensation in them.

3) However, there are times when the Engineer may open the cylinder cocks at speed, after closing the throttle in preparation for descending a very long down grade. With the cylinder cocks open, the Engineer can then crack the throttle and watch for steam exhausting from the open cocks, then the cocks are closed and there is sufficient steam being worked through the valves and pistons in order to supply lubrication.

Of course they  need to see what's ahead  ...I was just trying to point out that a good engineman knows the road blind folded and knowing the road it a big part of running a train..... . 

Hot  The reason I asked is... The video didn't show the engineman , opening any valves or taps. He went through the reverse/ forward procedure  and I thought maybe someone on the ground  had opened something..

Gregg posted:

Hot  The reason I asked is... The video didn't show the engineman , opening any valves or taps. He went through the reverse/ forward procedure  and I thought maybe someone on the ground  had opened something..

Actually, if you watch carefully the Engineer's hand DOES go to the steam supply valve for the cylinder cocks, located on the back-head, to make sure that the cylinder cocks are STILL open. The UP preferred the steam operated brand of cylinder cocks, i.e. they require boiler steam pressure to CLOSE the cocks. If there is no steam, then the cocks are normally open, and the locomotive can be easily towed around the shop area dead. The other REALLY BIG ADVANTAGE of the steam operated cocks is, if moisture/condensation does continue to accumulate in the cylinders, even after being blown out, the force of the hydraulic pressure of the water becomes greater than the steam pressure holding the cock/cocks closed, and the cock quickly "spits out" the water and does no damage to any machinery.

For what it's worth, the "other brand" of cylinder cocks is air operated and are normally closed, requiring air pressure to OPEN the cock. Thus, if there is no air pressure, the cocks are normally closed, and the locomotive should NOT be moved until air pressure is supplied to open the cocks.

Is the valve (brass)just above the "clip board"  close to the automatic... The video goes by fairly quickly.... Regardless thanks for your input.

While we're here a question about the electrical lights.... what voltage are the interior lights and headlights? I take it there's no battery but power is generated from a magneto??. The size of the  magneto's coils and magnets would control the AC  voltage?/. No steam no lights?

My question relates to the steam days and not excursions.

Lights were 32 volts.  Correct.  Everything runs off the steam powered generator.  No steam, no lights.

Rusty

Gregg posted:

Is the valve (brass)just above the "clip board"  close to the automatic... The video goes by fairly quickly.... Regardless thanks for your input.

While we're here a question about the electrical lights.... what voltage are the interior lights and headlights?

Pretty much ALL steam locomotives have 32 Volt electrical systems

I take it there's no battery but power is generated from a magneto??.

No batteries. Not a "magneto" but a small steam driven generator, i.e. the Pyle-National Dynamo.

The size of the  magneto's coils and magnets would control the AC  voltage?/.

No, the SPEED of the generator, which is controlled by the little governor in the steam supply, inside the device, maintains the voltage at a nominal 32 volts.

No steam no lights?

Correct.

My question relates to the steam days and not excursions.

No difference. However, it is becoming much more difficult to obtain the various size 32 volt light bulbs for the gauge lights, cab lights, and headlights.

Ok thank you all.... PS wouldn't you like to get over on the right side and try running this engine?   I wonder what's harder... firing or running the engine?

The closest I've come to running a steamer is my  friends 7 1/2" gauge  pacific. Yes towing  a bunch of nursery school kids around  is not quite the same.

Gregg posted:

Ok thank you all.... PS wouldn't you like to get over on the right side and try running this engine?   I wonder what's harder... firing or running the engine?

In my opinion and experience, firing 3985 was more difficult that running her.

The closest I've come to running a steamer is my  friends 7 1/2" gauge  pacific. Yes towing  a bunch of nursery school kids around  is not quite the same.

I've seen videos of 2102 where the engineer had to stand to see out the front window. And I could barely see the tracks ahead when I ran 765. No way I could see if someone ran out in front of the locomotive.