Hi Folks,
Just saw this on YouTube:
Original Post
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Wow... The battery looked like a regular 9 volt, A little more testing would be great, How long will it run ? Under what loads ?
A lot of potential here.
So what is next on your mad scientist list Joe ?
Bruce..
Hi Bruce,
It's not my project, but a video from BlueRail Trains on YouTube.
Take care, Joe.
Bob Walker is here on the forum, don't know if Pete Steinmetz (sp?) is but he is on the Deadrail forum.
The speaker mentioned it was a LiPo battery, but not the capacity. I'm getting well over 2 hours of run time using a 11.1v 2000Mah LiPo or a 9.6v 2000 Mah NiMh battery pack in my BPRC steamers, I'm using a system from RCS Australia.
Not sure if it's the BlueRail Trains software or the operator but they need to show better slow speed control if it'll do it.
One of my daughters gave me an iPad Air for Christmas so I've been watching what BlueRail Trains will be offering. They have a video on their site where the operator is using a Play Station type controller, pretty cool.
I haven't had to clean my track since last May and yet to have a glitch controlling the engines. IMO BPRC is the up and coming thing, whether it's a system like what i have or a Bluetooth module.
I hope BlueRail can get an Android version of the app out as soon as the boards for individual sale.
This could change a lot of things. Curious about sounds and Light functions. Now if they can add the ablity to charge a battery to their board that would be great.
2 amp board? Seems a little limiting. G
George,
The present board is for HO scale I believe, this video says future boards will be done:
http://bluerailtrains.com/2015...-first-plugin-board/
more videos:
The first board is 2 Amp 24v DC max. That will work for many smaller O trains.
I'm sure they will get higher amperage boards out soon enough, but if one was so inclined, it wouldn't be particularly hard to run the output of the 2 amp board to some beefier mosfets or power transistors on a nice, fat, heat sink, and bump it right up to 10-15 amps.
JGL
Ok, but still what are folks after. Bluetooth, wifi, Legacy, DCS, DCC, LC+, AirWire, etc, etc.... How many different circuit boards, etc.... At this point Lionel and MTH have the lock on circuit boards that are integrated control systems that control all aspects of the engine operation, lights, smoke, sounds, etc.. Integrated with a control system that can control a railroad/layout. Multiple engine, multiple lashups, switches, tracks, accessories, etc.. DCC and airwire tight second.
If you were investing your money do you think this is a high payoff, or just a fringe market. Bachmann has to get into the radio control market for O. They have DCC for HO, and they can certainly try to expand on that but, O is where they fall short. LC+ is a crushing blow to Bachmann O as it takes away a portion of the inexpensive conventional operators who are ok with command control.
Will you really take out a legacy or PS board to install a Bluetooth board? Why if you can operate with wifi? Sure I understand you don't want to have to buy anything, but.... G
George, I'm hoping a lot of people are ripping out their Legacy electronics for BT, I'll be waiting for the fire sale on the discarded electronics! 
Folks, I had a functioning DCS layout for PS2 engines, with CAB1-L injected for running TMCC/Legacy engines. I pulled the PS2 guts out of my 8 steam engines and installed BPRC.
Honestly, I didn't like all the gadgetry they were touted to perform, nor the reams of paper that needed to be read and understood to use it all. When something failed to do what I thought it should, it was easier to ask on the forum than it was to try finding the answer in any of the "bibles". Didn't happen often but it did happen. Add to this the constant bickering involved in which system was the best, got tired of that quickly.
It's refreshing to see something new come along that kind of upsets the apple cart.
I've been using Battery-Operated, Remote-Control since last May and find it "refreshing". I'm presently using a system from RCS in Australia in 8 steam engines.
No sound yet (I do have sound installed in 1 steam engine), and all I really miss is the chuff anyway. I have all the lights I need, and the ability to add more if I want. The engines and trains make plenty of noise as they move around the layout.
It's the ability to have a choice in what system I want to use that counts. I don't know if I'll ever go the bluetooth route, but now that I have an iPad, I can certainly do so if/when I want.
There's lots of folks with conventional engines that could easily convert to this new bluetooth setup, or even the BPRC setup I'm using.
Battery power can only get better and more suited to our O scale trains. I've proven that a 3amp board can pull a 14lb steam engine and five 2lb cars (24lb total) using a 11.1v, 2200Mah battery pack and run for over 2 hours.
I hope Bachmann and BlueRail Trains continue on with their efforts and that more people convert their existing engines when these systems become available.
As Bob2 says...opinion.
I Suppose I don't see folks that already have legacy layouts and many high dollar locomotives as the target audience, for the most part. Sure there are a few folks out there that would like a bluetooth control if they are switching to full battery power, and you will see some higher end engines converted, but for the most part, I expect the marketing to be for folks currently running conventional. From the comments of folks, in general, on LC/LC+ we can see that folks like low cost, stand alone control, and I think there is room in the market for a competitor... especially one that allows installation on any engine, not just the ones they chose to offer.
I think it's neat, and I think lots of other folks do too, and I support new ideas and competing products. In the end, given a fair and free chance to compete with other systems, we'll see what wins out. Might just be a larger demand than anyone thinks for things like traveling layouts with no need for wiring.
JGL
"I expect the marketing to be for folks currently running conventional" 
And that's what Williams by Bachmann has been a leader of all these years. Just how many Williams conventional engines are in the hands of folks on this forum?
What better way for WbB to get into the command control market in O scale without having to use a competitors system. Maybe Atlas will work a deal with them?!?!?!
Even 3rd Rail has announced a new "Bluewave" bluetooth controller.
Well I just bought my little guy a Lionel Thomas with the remote. If the board on the engine goes bad Lionel
will not sell you one. So it's $100 + parts = Not worth the price to fix. So a BT board might be a good
alternative....
Bob Delbridge posted:Folks, I had a functioning DCS layout for PS2 engines, with CAB1-L injected for running TMCC/Legacy engines. I pulled the PS2 guts out of my 8 steam engines and installed BPRC.
Honestly, I didn't like all the gadgetry they were touted to perform, nor the reams of paper that needed to be read and understood to use it all. When something failed to do what I thought it should, it was easier to ask on the forum than it was to try finding the answer in any of the "bibles". Didn't happen often but it did happen. Add to this the constant bickering involved in which system was the best, got tired of that quickly.
It's refreshing to see something new come along that kind of upsets the apple cart.
I've been using Battery-Operated, Remote-Control since last May and find it "refreshing". I'm presently using a system from RCS in Australia in 8 steam engines.
No sound yet (I do have sound installed in 1 steam engine), and all I really miss is the chuff anyway. I have all the lights I need, and the ability to add more if I want. The engines and trains make plenty of noise as they move around the layout.
It's the ability to have a choice in what system I want to use that counts. I don't know if I'll ever go the bluetooth route, but now that I have an iPad, I can certainly do so if/when I want.
There's lots of folks with conventional engines that could easily convert to this new bluetooth setup, or even the BPRC setup I'm using.
Battery power can only get better and more suited to our O scale trains. I've proven that a 3amp board can pull a 14lb steam engine and five 2lb cars (24lb total) using a 11.1v, 2200Mah battery pack and run for over 2 hours.
I hope Bachmann and BlueRail Trains continue on with their efforts and that more people convert their existing engines when these systems become available.
As Bob2 says...opinion.
Bob, you don't run with sound or smoke right? Why would you wish that on others? G
George, I'm not wishing it on anyone, I simply don't want all that stuff. One of the 1st things I did to all my engines was to remove the smoke unit. If I can find a sound board that gives me ONLY chuff, controlled by either cams on the axle or voltage, I'm all set. Even the basic MyLocoSound board has too much (chuff, bell, whistle, safety valve blow, brake pump, and all aboard) in it for my wants. But I am playing around with a MyLocoSound board in one of my RailKing 2-8-0s so we'll see. I can simply not install/connect the wiring if I don't want sounds other than chuff, but I'd rather have a single circuit design that gives me chuff. I may have to make my own.
I don't know if anyone makes/offers a chip that can play only 1 sound, but what do the manufacturers do...they take every available bit of memory and load them up with some of the craziest noises possible (a dog bark, really?).
Bob, while I respect your right to have whatever capabilities you want, I have to say that having no sound or only chuffing is certainly not going to hit the mainstream market.
What you need is the old Sound of Steam board that generated a burst of static whenever the chuff switch closed. 
I have a sound board that will play only one sound on command, but the problem is that the chuff is dynamic, at higher speeds it's different, So really, it's not just "one sound". Since my prototype board actually can play up to five sounds, you could program it to time the chuffs and change to a different sound at different rates. 
It's pretty clear that long time O gauge aficionados will not be interested. Nor will the Ready-To-Run crowd. They will keep what they got - or they will buy what's available - which is perfectly fine. Lionel and MTH continue to cater to them with DCS and Legacy. Most are probably about 20 to 40 years further along than I... no reason for them to change what they do. This really isn't targeted at the Boomers.
So lets get past that segment of the hobby. They don't matter in this discussion.
This technology provides:
100% RC control
From a Mobile Device
Option for Battery Control
Bluetooth Sound via external speakers
Connection is included for future internal soundboards
Forward and Reverse Lighting
with plans of future boards for layout control
What requirements does it eliminate:
No Wiring
No Extra controllers
No systems
No under-the-table equipment
No Transformers
What is currently lost:
Enhanced lighting
Smoke systems
Internal Sound
Ready-To-Run
Layout control
It's all a personal judgement.
- Yea, I can buy a $600-1000 loco and a modern transformer ($300-700) and the legacy / dcs control system ($300) and wire it all ($200) and a wi-fi system ($200) and have a nice running engine with lots of bells and whistles for around $1600 - 2400. One engine.
- or I can buy a $100-175 used TMCC / PS1 loco and gut it. Buy an $80 control board, a $25 battery, install and have a nice running engine with a few less bells and whistles... for $200-250.
As a young person entering the hobby, with no transformers, no systems, no wired layout... I have no reason to go the traditional route. I'm all in - as soon as Bluerail trains releases the big boards. I only wish I'd known about it before I bought all this 3-rail track. I guess in the future I'll be pulling middle rails... just like Bob.
Don't make it an age thing. You listed some nice thing pro and some con. Unfortunately the con is train capability. By the way, you can run MTH on battery. That is not a new capability. You can by a ford escort and put a Corvette LS-6 motor in, but it really won't perform like a Corvette or a sports car. If your all about the Radio and not about the train, then it is for you.
Bob, I only teased you because you did state you hoped more people would ditch Legacy and DCS at the end of your post. For folks that like those features your system can't give them it.
"I hope Bachmann and BlueRail Trains continue on with their efforts and that more people convert their existing engines when these systems become available."
I still think if your building a railroad. You want and need a complete command system. G
The thing of it is, while the current offering may be rather limited, the bluetooth system doesn't preclude the possibility of adding better sound. For all we know it is already in the works. A sound system equal to that in say LC+ would be relatively simple to design. It's not quite amateur level, but nothing really imposing. Better sound than that is beyond the scope of what I know I could do, and so I can't make a firm claim on the difficulties.
As for whole layout control, it is insanely simple, with only a few dollars worth of parts, to build a bluetooth-L module capable of throwing switches or powering accessories or such. I think the interface might get a bit complex for whole layout control on a phone, but on a larger tablet device, there should be plenty of room to add a few tabs at the top for Routes, Switches, Lash-ups, accessories, uncouplers, and whatever else you want. The nice thing is, any time you release a new product or feature, a software update is all it will take to add the feature to your "remote".
As for who the target market might be, I think there are more older folks than one might thing that currently run conventional, that might give it a try after being uninspired with the two big systems and their various issues and costs.
The one thing that does worry me a little on the long term profitability of this particular system is that some enterprising person might crack the protocol in use, and make a board that could use what seems like a nice mobil app with their own electronics package, costing less than the branded product. Bluetooth, micro-controllers, and motor controllers are insanely cheap at this time... somewhere around $10 for the actual hardware needed to convert an engine to wireless control. Then again, such a person could also take the time to learn to write their own mobil apps and just make a clone with no need to infringe on a proprietary system.
JGL
The BlueRail Trains board has a plug on it for future sound options, so at least they're looking into it.
I doubt Bachmann, 3rd Rail, and BlueRail would be spending time and $$$ on this if they didn't think it was worth the effort, same with MTH and Lionel incorporating wifi. I've said in the past they would be better off to make their engines "XXX-Ready" and leave the command components for other companies to develop and provide. Think of all the labor and money MTH and Lionel could save if they didn't have to develop it, repair, or provide parts for repairing the electronics.
Not having to deal with wiring, cleaning track, or reading about all the problems people have running DCS or TMCC is most enlightening, but I haven't entirely given up on DCS and TMCC quite yet either. I still have 6 diesels with the electronics inside (3 PS2, 3 TMCC/Legacy). But at present the only thing I can run them on is a loop of track on the floor.
Very interesting discussion. I love the idea of battery power as long as I have deafening sound, copious smoke, and deafening sound. Copious smoke is good, too.
The nice thing for me is, its compatible with DCS,DCC,TMCC,and Deltang that Im using now! There's no need to give the othere's up. Im still running DCS in two rail, with 2.4 or Blue Tooth. Ill be grabbing a board as soon as they are available. cTr...( Choose the Right )
Bob Delbridge posted:The BlueRail Trains board has a plug on it for future sound options, so at least they're looking into it.
I doubt Bachmann, 3rd Rail, and BlueRail would be spending time and $$$ on this if they didn't think it was worth the effort, same with MTH and Lionel incorporating wifi. I've said in the past they would be better off to make their engines "XXX-Ready" and leave the command components for other companies to develop and provide. Think of all the labor and money MTH and Lionel could save if they didn't have to develop it, repair, or provide parts for repairing the electronics.
Not having to deal with wiring, cleaning track, or reading about all the problems people have running DCS or TMCC is most enlightening, but I haven't entirely given up on DCS and TMCC quite yet either. I still have 6 diesels with the electronics inside (3 PS2, 3 TMCC/Legacy). But at present the only thing I can run them on is a loop of track on the floor.
They have to Bob. Do you think the market for conventional only trains is growing, constant, or shrinking? With LC and LC+ now available are you going to buy a basic low detail WbB engine with sluethe smoke, basic sound, no electro coupler, and basic light.
There is a market for everything, but in really small markets a slight shift can mean all profitability is lost. If your #3 in the market, you can't come up with a command system that will take market share from the #1 and #2 unless it is new and unique and offers a desirable capability/ies.
Your DCS and TMCC layout was working well wasn't it, you like to scratch build, so you went a different route which is fine.
Command control for Bachman is going to be great for them.
I am even sure a handful of folks will buy Lionel and MTH engines and gut them to install this system. But that may not be a market. But it will be a seller for the stand alone set and an interesting completion for the LCs ground.
So what if MTH started selling starter sets with a small translator power pack that allowed a Phone app using Wifi or Bluetooth to control a PS-3 starter set. Which would you buy?
This will be an interesting development in attack and counter attack from a market perspective. G
"So what if MTH started selling starter sets with a small translator power pack that allowed a Phone app using Wifi or Bluetooth to control a PS-3 starter set. Which would you buy?"
As some like to say, it depends on price. The PS3 starter set is likely to cost over $300 based upon current MTH pricing. Lionel has already halved that or more for its cheapest LionChief sets, and I'm guessing Bachman will be able to do that as well. MTH's current limitation is they are committed to using custom made (not using off the shelf stuff), very expensive PS3 boards in all their locos, even their beginner sets. Some see this as a virtue, but for the starter set market, it's a formidable negative in cost.
I'd not be surprised to see Lionel eventually making it's LionChief sets with rechargeable internal lithium polymer batteries that automatically recharge from the track. These batteries are pretty inexpensive, and would allow the LionChief locos to run on two rail track, plastic track, no track etc. if they have a charging port. A natural evolution perhaps. Control of layout devices (accessories, turnouts, etc.) would also be simple and inexpensive, potentially.
Bob Delbridge posted:I've said in the past they would be better off to make their engines "XXX-Ready" and leave the command components for other companies to develop and provide. Think of all the labor and money MTH and Lionel could save if they didn't have to develop it, repair, or provide parts for repairing the electronics.
Other companies went that route, check out the PC market. IBM made an open system and tons of people jumped in, and took over the market. Then you look at the Apple company model. They made a closed system and have become the largest company by market capitalization in the world! I think Lionel would rather emulate the Apple model. If IBM or MTH were to follow your advice, they'd be just another Me Too company with nothing unique. I seriously doubt they're listening all that intently to that advice.
I can certainly see them adopting any good ideas that come along, but the thought of them relinquishing their technology isn't going anywhere in the near future.
gunrunnerjohn posted:Then you look at the Apple company model. They made a closed system and have become the largest company by market capitalization in the world!
Not for nothin' but, Apple is as big as it is because of marketing that makes people think they have something special (like Under Armour, etc), and because they figured out how to evade most US taxes by creating small offices in non USA locations and allocating all their profits there. Other major companies are now copying their model!
As far as battery operated trains, I'm looking forward to some of the options on the horizon!
Ed
I don't rule them out Ed, but they're not the end-all be-all that they're being touted as here. They're simply an interesting new product in a very early stage, but without the capability a majority would see as minimal requirements. They may well become mainstream in the future, but they'll have to improve in features to do so.
However Apple did their magic, it obviously worked!
I wonder if they will use the same batteries that they are using in hoverboards. You know, the ones that keep exploding and catching on fire?
Ed
Ed, that would solve the lack of smoke issue, maybe the sizzle of the batteries burning would also sound like chuffing and fix the missing sounds! 
Landsteiner posted:"So what if MTH started selling starter sets with a small translator power pack that allowed a Phone app using Wifi or Bluetooth to control a PS-3 starter set. Which would you buy?"
As some like to say, it depends on price. The PS3 starter set is likely to cost over $300 based upon current MTH pricing. Lionel has already halved that or more for its cheapest LionChief sets, and I'm guessing Bachman will be able to do that as well. MTH's current limitation is they are committed to using custom made (not using off the shelf stuff), very expensive PS3 boards in all their locos, even their beginner sets. Some see this as a virtue, but for the starter set market, it's a formidable negative in cost.
I'd not be surprised to see Lionel eventually making it's LionChief sets with rechargeable internal lithium polymer batteries that automatically recharge from the track. These batteries are pretty inexpensive, and would allow the LionChief locos to run on two rail track, plastic track, no track etc. if they have a charging port. A natural evolution perhaps. Control of layout devices (accessories, turnouts, etc.) would also be simple and inexpensive, potentially.
Sure, If you want to buy this: http://www.lionel.com/products...-set-loco-91-6-81287 for $174.95 versus
a die cast steam set or an imperial Freight set at the $429 to 449, go for it. If you move to a more reasonable Lionel equivalent set your in the same ball park at $389 to $400. SOme are even higher because of fees (PE, DC Comics, etc...)
People that want a Harley Davidson, don't care that the Honda or Yamaha is quicker, lighter and less expensive. They want the Harley. Just like folks that want a Boss Mustang don't buy an escort with a V-6.
You can look at it from a set to set comparison or what is in the set. Those are two different assessments. By your analogy every one is out of business because you certainly can't compete with the Lionel Plastic G gauge Remote set you can get at the discount warehouse for $49. If they were so market valued, those high MSRP would have sold and the excess would not be at Ollie's for $49.
It still is about marketing, and there certainly is a lot of Bluetooth, wifi and Radio COTS available. MTH like Lionel is building proprietary stuff with capability the market they sell to wants. I bet both also accept each other and the other manufacturers as a necessary part of the train hobby. If MTH or Lionel thought that some of this would be a new market leader, they will jump in. Like I said this is good for WbB and some other small manufactures. Could very well be a ding against LC/LC+, but they have to step up the detail on the Locos and features provided. Let's face it, if you don't want detail, don't want sound or features, why not just buy inexpensive Post war trains. You can get rolling stock in the $5 to $25 range. Engines under $100. Build your own remote controlled power source. G
If you are going to run on battery power why keep the 3rd rail?
What about G gauge ? Do they already have some kind of remote system ? I wonder if the original
intent of the BT was for the G gauge line , Now they have just expanded it to other scales. As far as Bachman
goes I think O gauge is on the bottom of the priority list anyway...
Stoshu....
Stoshu posted:What about G gauge ? Do they already have some kind of remote system ? I wonder if the original
intent of the BT was for the G gauge line , Now they have just expanded it to other scales. As far as Bachman
goes I think O gauge is on the bottom of the priority list anyway...
Stoshu....
This system from Bluerail was originally design for O. A Bachmann partnership was why it was released in HO first. G is on the horizon for this companies' tech.
A main advantage of this system is that it appears you will be able to operate it on layouts that currently have conventional and command capabilities, no restrictions. You already have the controller if you have a smartphone. As with LionChief and LionChief Plus you do not need to spend another $200-300 or so on Legacy or DCS or similar systems to have command capabilities. This is a substantial plus for the beginners and those on a tighter budget. Also, like LC and LC+ it uses, as JGL points out, off the shelf and inexpensive, well tested
hardware. The limitations are solely those the manufacturer wishes to impose, and these will likely be chipped away over time. Simple, inexpensive and "cross platform" compatible
are good things. These are things that have made LC and LC+ a success, and bode well for this technology as well.
"o it's $100 + parts = Not worth the price to fix."
You can buy a complete new set for less than $100 at some of the usual internet sources. Loco plus remote is less than $100 at Charles Ro. Just FYI.
I'll volunteer to be the test bed for one of these boards from BlueRail if they want I have a Weaver RS3 that's just got a Pittman dc motor in it. All I'd need is a battery and the "App" for my iPad.
All they have to do is contact me for shipping data
