Boston and Maine, Flying Yankee color scheme

@O Gauge Jim posted:

The Boston and Maine, Flying Yankee streamliner has always been one of my favorite trains. I think in my travels to train shows, museums and other sources I’ve seen most of the color combinations including the the more common gunmetal, the black, the red, and the olive green that Lionel supposedly made in limited quantities for a department store in Baltimore.

The bodies were primarily chrome with fluted sides and some bodies were painted aluminum color with both flat and fluted sides. The colors were normally limited to the locomotive cab and the tail portion of the observation car and on some cars the vestibule skirts. In all cases I thought the vestibules matched the coaches, being either chrome or painted aluminum.

However, in reviewing the book by TCA, “Lionel Trains, Standard Of The World,1900-1943”, 2nd addition, in the addendum section on page 170, I have found a color combination I have never heard of or never seen. It reads 616E chrome/red top and nose, red tail, red skirts and vestibules. 617, 617 and 618 to match. Circa 1936. I can find no other reference to this color scheme in any of my books. The thing that surprises me is the red vestibules. Does anyone have such a color scheme in their own collection or seen one in their travels?

Thanks so much for your input and have a great day. My heart and prayers go out to all of you who have had difficulties due to the recent fires and weather. My prayers are for everyone to make as rapid a recovery as possible.  Jim

I think we can be pretty sure that Lionel did not paint vestibules just from thinking about the manufacturing process.

We know that there were cast parts that were black or red, mainly the power car roofs.  Theses were on production lines completely separate from the lines that stamped the car bodies and vestibules.  At the point where a train was assembled, a red, black or silver painted cab roof would have been attached according to the version of train being assembled.

A side note.  After perusing eBay, I see black, red or silver paint on power car roofs, whole fronts and observation ends.  But those are always the cast parts.

Painting some of the vestibules would have added a detour off the body production line to route some of the vestibules through the painting process.  That would have brought a synchronization requirement to that production.  At the point of train assembly, it would have been necessary to  rearrange the process so that red vestibules were always matched with red roofs.

One exception to unpainted stamped parts were the truck frames which were painted black.  But those were from a different production line than the chrome plated bodies and vestibules.

I see one Flying Yankee on eBay that has red trucks, but that is clearly a repaint.  The giveaway is the perfect looking roof top with a lot of scratches on the underside.

--------------------

I conclusion, I would not believe there was a Flying Yankee with red vestibules unless someone can find a photo of one that was clearly not a repaint.

Thanks mlaughlinnyc, your reasoning makes sense. However, the vestibules for the city of Denver, and the Blue Streak had painted vestibules identical in shape to the chrome vestibules used on the flying Yankee. Possibly red painted vestibules could’ve been made on the paint line and incorporate it into a flying Yankee set. Also, the city of Portland, the Hiawatha and the Rail Chief had painted vestibules but of a slightly different construction. I think they were two piece but they still could’ve been painted on the same paint line.

However, like you I am guessing that if such a Flying Yankee existed, it probably was a repaint. What I’m going to do now is pass the ball to the historian at TCA who will research this. Thanks for your input. Jim