Bought A Williams Masterpiece Dreyfuss Hudson, Have Some Questions...

I think you’re in the right place now!…anyways!…😁…..so tell us more about the intentions of your new find, ….how do you intend to run it?…are you command control, or staying fully conventional?….this engine when new was very basic functions and fairly crude sounds,…..the Williams boards you’re looking at are a basic reverse unit ( conventional only ) and sounds equivalent to a Pac-Man game from the 80’s ……not sure if you know this or not, the Lionel Smithsonian Dreyfuss and the Williams Masterpiece are practically sisters,….albeit the Smithsonian is Pittman equipped, and maybe the gear box in the Smithsonian is a wee bit better??….don’t quote me on that ……but both are absolutely stunning highly detailed models ……you can more than likely repair what’s there, but if bringing it up to today’s electronics is a possibility,  then let’s hear how you’re running your railroad…….cool model, great find!..

Pat

Thank you, and I appreciate the guidance!

I currently don't have a proper layout... Just a modest collection of trains displayed in my office and a bunch of tracks running on the floors, although proper benchwork is planned, as the office has slowly evolved into the "Train Room," and the Mrs. has accepted and seems cool with that. That being the case, I run a lot of traditional trains, but when I get the urge to do so, every once in a while I'll turn on my old Lionel TMCC system and run the couple of engines I have capable of that (a JLC Y6b and a Lionel A class from around that same time period). Once I start building a proper layout, I'll probably look into a Base 3 and turn my purchases toward more modern equipment. Given the space I'll have, though, there's still plenty of fun to be had with traditional style trains, and I have no intention of getting rid of my old school PS1, MPC, and Postwar locomotives. It should be noted that I do not own any MTH PS2/PS3 engines, and due to the uncertainty that revolves around MTH and their future in general, I'm not looking to upgrade it with their system.

In the interest of just getting this one running, I'd like to get the tether issue sorted and go from there. I'm also interested in hearing the sound system, as I've read that if it's the original (which is does indeed appear to be), it's hilariously bad, lol. It's first duty, however, is to be a beautiful shelf piece, and it's already doing a great job of that.

Still... Being such a nice engine, it would be pretty awesome to upgrade it to modern standards, and I enjoy an engine that has a good sound system and spits out a lot of smoke. I would be willing to invest in more modern Lionel based upgrades.

I was aware that the engine supposedly has a lot in common with the Smithsonian edition Lionel Dreyfuss. All of the Lionel versions I find are beyond my budget, though, and when I happened across this one on Ebay, I was willing to roll the dice (I was actually the only bidder). Until now I've never seen either version in person, and even though it isn't running yet, I must say that I am NOT disappointed. Made me nervous disassembling it for fear of hurting the fine details, but it is an AMAZING representation of what is one of my favorite prototypes.

The current wiring is two wires from the track, center and outside rail, and two wires back to the motor. I believe the headlight is wired internally from the track right to the bulb. As Pat says sound is pretty crude, but it should come on with all the wires connected.

The type of replacement tether will depend on what features you want. If you want to operate like a modern locomotive, puffing smoke, synchronized chuff,  then a ten pin MTH tether set is likely your best option. Given the large lead weight pretty much all the electronics have to go in the tender.

Pete

FWIW ERR Cruise Commander and Railsounds would be a relative easy install. You just have to isolate the tender shell for the antenna given the covered coal load and decide on a chuff switch. I believe it uses a axle magnet on a tender axle now.
The Mabuchi motor is OK but you could easily replace it with a Pittman like the Smithsonian version has.

Pete

@Mallet1218,

I was lucky enough to find one several years back.  This model (Williams Crown Edition, Masterpiece Series, Product No. BS-02) is indeed special.

As far as I can tell, once you appreciate the detail, the sound system is the next big distinguishing feature of the Masterpiece Series.  It was made by OTT Machine Services of Lombard, IL and is quite primitive by today's standards.  It's been discussed on the forum several times.

Look closely at your photo of the sound board.  There are three or four adjustment potentiometers depending on the version.  These are a giveaway that it's from OTT.  If there are four they adjust 'Chuff Rate 1', 'Chuff Volume', 'Master Volume', and 'Chuff Rate 2'.

Thanks to our forum friend @Vernon Barry for the following photo.  Although his is from a Challenger (BS-04) the one in the Dreyfuss Hudson is the same:

You can find more detail here:

    Ott Machine Services Stored Analog Steam Engine Sound System | PaperTRW

Next are a few pics of the one I have.  Ignore the missing pony truck.  It came loose and was in the box.  I was in a hurry, and forgot to put it back on before shooting:

Mike

I purchased one brand new. They sold for $900 and were a direct buy from Williams. These weren’t sold through dealers. I agree with the comments on looks. Simply stunning. I had been in the hobby for a few years and was more focused on building a layout. But I couldn’t pass on anything NYC. I was familiar with Williams and owned a couple of Crown  Edition brass steamers.

I did run mine a bit. Never made it around the layout without derailing somewhere. A quick investigation revealed the problem. I noticed it always derailed entering a curve. My layout was all Gargraves flex. I kept close to an 072 minimum. But I built in very gradual easements into all my curves. When it went off the rails. The rim on the front driver always ended up inside the rail. The other side was still on the rail. Flipping the engine over I noticed the rims were very narrow on this engine compared to my Crown Niagara. By about 1/3. Almost like a 2 rail rim with a 3 rail flange. A rough measurement showed the actual gauge to be close enough to correct. I could set the engine on a straight piece of track. Push on the side of the wheel slightly and it would drop down inside the rail.

Back then there was no Internet to get information. These engines came with a warranty and a money back guarantee. After calling Williams. They said to send it back for a look. Engine was returned pretty quick but the issue wasn’t resolved. The engine only exhibited the problem on a handful of curves. Always at the easement portion. Once it navigated that it was fine. Not wanting to deal with it. I called Williams about returning it and within a couple weeks had a refund check.

Fast forward about 12 years. There was a discussion on the Forum about this engine. I mentioned my problem. There was a fix as one poster had seen the same issue. The drivers were sprung on this engine. Many if not all brass engines were at the time. It was sort of standard I believe in 2 rail O and the same brass builders were building in 3 rail. I’m not sure if the fix involved very stiff springs or just a metal like dowel insert that basically took all the up and down movement out of the axle basically keeping it rigid. Not allowing any springing action to force it inside a rail. Pete or Pat that posted can probably explain the workings on it better than me.

Chances are you won’t see an issue. It was probably tested on standard available track when built. My layout the way the track was laid was probably not the norm at the time. I have no idea what the radius is on the easements but nowadays with some long engines being produced your seeing some big curves on layouts.

This engines a real looker. Super detailed even by today’s standards. Definitely worth upgrading.

I have one of these that I recently upgraded to ERR TMCC with cruise and Chuff Generator.

As others have said the original sounds aren’t much, but par for the course when this was produced. If you’re considering a tmcc upgrade I’d replace the tether with a 10 pin or other size from Royz trains. You don’t need to isolate the tender shell for the antenna, just scrape the coal out of the tender and burry the antenna in the coal wrapped in heat shrink. Worked great for me.

Visually the engine is incredible. The detail is fantastic, which is why I wanted to upgrade it. It does derail more than others and isn’t the smoothest runner but err cruise helped. I’ll post a video of it here soon. The gearbox is geared for high speed operation and even with err cruise the fist speed step is probably 8 scale. Mph. It was one of the most challenging upgrades I’ve done, these older brass engines really weren’t designed for modern electronics. No hot or ground pick up on the tender, etc. But I’m happy with the result.

@harmonyards posted:

……not sure if you know this or not, the Lionel Smithsonian Dreyfuss and the Williams Masterpiece are practically sisters,….albeit the Smithsonian is Pittman equipped, and maybe the gear box in the Smithsonian is a wee bit better??….don’t quote me on that ……but both are absolutely stunning highly detailed models ……you can more than likely repair what’s there, but if bringing it up to today’s electronics is a possibility,  then let’s hear how you’re running your railroad…….cool model, great find!..

Pat

I have the Williams version (eBay; tested years ago; ran OK - still a shelf queen awaiting a maybe-never ERR treatment), and somewhat later I picked up a ratty, non-functional Smithsonian version for cheap, telling myself that it's "for parts". I have since received counseling for my "Century Hudson" addiction. None have shown up on the front porch for quite some time - years.

The Williams and Smithsonian are indeed from the same shops, and both have a 3rd Rail aura about the construction. I'm wondering if the same builder was involved...though there is no belt drive involved.

Just curious.

I've got one I think. Has a lot of problems. R/S cross head came unsoldered. I tried JB welding it back on but didn't get it quite in the spot it needs to be.

Smoke unit didn't want to work right. The  front pilot fell off running around the track. Should've sent it back but it's in a box some where around here.

Paid  a thousand $ for it, wish I'd never bought it.

I appreciate all the info, everyone!

Tomorrow I'm going to try and track down a tether; it'll be interesting to see if this one runs okay.

Hopefully it will, but if worse comes to worse, it makes a helluva shelf piece, anyway. If I can get it to run alright on my setup, then I might turn my attention to upgrading the sound, and maybe even the motor.  If it turns out to be an uphill battle, it'll just look pretty.

We shall see...

@Mallet1218 posted:

I appreciate all the info, everyone!

Tomorrow I'm going to try and track down a tether; it'll be interesting to see if this one runs okay.

Hopefully it will, but if worse comes to worse, it makes a helluva shelf piece, anyway. If I can get it to run alright on my setup, then I might turn my attention to upgrading the sound, and maybe even the motor.  If it turns out to be an uphill battle, it'll just look pretty.

We shall see...

Johnathan, you can find this kit readily available and very reasonable for making your own tethers, ….my buddy Sid on this forum turned me onto this kit, pretty invaluable if you like doing DIY projects …..I doubt you’ll ever find the exact same tether ends as what came stock, so more than likely you’ll wind up replacing both ends…

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

Johnathan, you can find this kit readily available and very reasonable for making your own tethers, ….my buddy Sid on this forum turned me onto this kit, pretty invaluable if you like doing DIY projects …..I doubt you’ll ever find the exact same tether ends as what came stock, so more than likely you’ll wind up replacing both ends…

Pat

THANK YOU!!!

I was in my autoparts store in the electrical section yesterday hoping to find something small enough, but no luck. Was looking at this kit on Amazon and wondered if the plugs would be the right size for my purpose. Just ordered it.

Really appreciate the info!

You'll also want a crimp tool, here's a reasonably priced one that I have that works well.  It handles many common connector families, including most of the ones used in model trains.

IWISS Mini Micro Open Barrel Crimping Tools Works on AWG28-20 JAM, Molex, Tyco, JST Terminals and Connectors

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

You'll also want a crimp tool, here's a reasonably priced one that I have that works well.  It handles many common connector families, including most of the ones used in model trains.

IWISS Mini Micro Open Barrel Crimping Tools Works on AWG28-20 JAM, Molex, Tyco, JST Terminals and Connectors

Good call, sir. I have several crimpers from working on cars regularly, but they aren't so great for the small gauge wires found on trains. I'll try to get a set of those ordered.

@Mallet1218 posted:

Good call, sir. I have several crimpers from working on cars regularly, but they aren't so great for the small gauge wires found on trains. I'll try to get a set of those ordered.

Yeah, ….John is correct on that ….I shoulda mentioned those crimping pliers…..you’ll be spitting in the wind with out them…..same unmentionable place for the tether parts you can find those pliers…..

Pat

Pat, Amazon is a good place for the crimp tool, especially if you have Prime.  The $20 price is better than you'll find on eBay.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Pat, Amazon is a good place for the crimp tool, especially if you have Prime.  The $20 price is better than you'll find on eBay.

Yep, ….that was the “ other unmentionable place “ I mentioned….the kit I posted was from there too,…..I got my pliers from Amazon as well,…

Pat