Boxes, What Again ?

Dan, I'm right there with you.  If the engine is in decent mechanical shape, or is in need of slight repair that I can easily do myself, I'm ok without a box.  Having said that, I would expect to NOT pay full "collector's" price for the model. 

At some point, I will add a few mint condition engines to my collection and wouldn't mind paying a little extra for the original box.

I've bought lots of stuff without a box.  OTOH, for stuff like higher end locomotives, I know that if I ever sell, the box will make a difference in the asking price, so I make my offer with that in mind.

I'm sure this subject comes up from time to time.  How many of you are concerned about whether a post-war or pre-war item for that matter comes with an original box ?

With rare exception, these days I don't care about the box at all when I am buying.
Once upon a time, having the original box indicated that the train was lightly used, well cared for, and was most likely in nice shape. Once it became common practice to buy and sell empty boxes, the significance of the box disappeared. 

Same goes for set boxes. Putting sets together to fill an empty set box is popular. But not everybody is careful to get the right variation or to match up conditions.

The original poster asked about prewar and postwar.
Modern era is a different case. I will rarely buy a modern era piece without it's original box, and all the stuff that was in there, like instruction sheets, etc.

Everything I buy will see time on my layout. When not running, it may well be displayed. If the box is there, great. If not, it isn't a deal breaker. As long as I like the piece, and the price, it will come home with me.

Which brings up the second question.  What to do with the empty boxes while trains are either on display or on the layout.  My large scale boxes take up alot of room.  Fortunately I don't have too many of those to store.  Some, but no many, can be folded flat.  

For boxes I decide to keep, I wrap them in the cling-wrap plastic several layers all over and stash them in the attic.  I group them in piles so I don't have to wrap individual boxes.

That's a good idea John.  If only my youngest daughter would find a house so her stuff can be put in her attic.....LOL  

I feel your pain Dan, I'd have a lot more space in my attic if I didn't have all my daughter's furniture up there!

Dan Padova,

   I have some rolling stock without original Boxes, however because I break down my Christmas layout every year and store the rolling stock in the boxes, in big plastic containers in the Attic, I try hard to keep the original boxes, unfortunately some times it's not possible, especially with old Tin Plate.

PCRR/Dave

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I've bought lots of stuff without a box.  OTOH, for stuff like higher end locomotives, I know that if I ever sell, the box will make a difference in the asking price, so I make my offer with that in mind.

John

I'm right there with you, Basically i discard the boxes of all my rolling stock only keeping boxes for engines and cabooses only. When I sell an item I just price accordingly and factor in the lack of a box. I buy my trains for operation and pleasure, not for investment

Steve

"Hey, Papa, Nice engine, Where's the BOX!!!" 

lol, "If I like the piece, box or no...." Agree

For pre-war and post-war stuff, I don’t care if it has a box or not.  The value is in the item for me.  I will pay a premium if the item is in good shape, but I won’t pay a premium for the box.  That said, in my experience, when the original box is included, the item is in better condition.

For modern stuff, I like to get the box.  Again, I won’t pay a premium for the box, but I might want a few bucks off if there is no box.

I keep all the boxes and (like others here) I store them in the attic (under the train platform).  That is getting more difficult as my roster grows.  In general, it seems like boxes are made way bigger than they need to be.  My latest gripe is the awkward shape of passenger set boxes.  They look like they would be fun to open on Christmas morning, but they are hard to find a storage spot for.

I have managed to get some stuff with their boxes. Usually the stuff in my price range doesn't come with one. But if I can find one, Pre,Postwar, or MPC, I'll grab it.I have very little Modern type stuff. But even if the box is missing the flaps, It's great to see.

Dan,

I am in the process of storing the boxes under my railroad. Besides the boxes you see which are all locomotives, there are sixteen 32 gallon plastic totes of boxed trains under the railroad, and a mountainous pile yet to be dealt with.

The only boxes I do not keep are those that track came in.

Would you believe that some folks value the boxes more than the trains within. I even heard a story about a collector who bought a set of pre-war trains in a factory sealed box, and he has not opened the box to see the trains he bought for fear of devaluing the set! A perfect setup for a scammer.

That's funny Bob.  I'm just finishing "All Aboard"  The story of JLC and his trains by Ron Hollander.  This is the newer edition with story line that goes well into the nineties.  In the book, he references collectors who buy sealed boxes of trains and will not open them.  However, the sellers he refers to have prayed the box to prove it's contents.  The X-ray comes with the sale.  I've heard of this in the past.  Would I trust the X-ray to be authentic, no.  But then I am not a collector, but an operator.  

I am going to take the operator approach as well, Dan. As I do understand the purists, I am being mentored by mr Elliot. And based on your observations and his sharing of knowledge, I feel that is what I can muster. 

I am also an "Operator" of a Classic car. And my sons, daughter, Niece and Nephew have all had lessons on how to pull (cough cough) a "Donut" in the parking lot, as well as knwoing a bit about what makes er run. Yes, Operator. Good point.

Jay Leno.. hmmmmm. I DO see him "Operate" one of hiscollectables now and again, and he does have some DEEP Pockets. (I know, right)

p.s. cudos to Elliot. I'll be over again soon, kind sir

-the kid

I would pause for a moment to reflect on what was in front of me....then I's open the box and run the trains.

I do own a few (VERY FEW) pieces with no box.  Now, I usually say, No box, No sale.  Period!!  Why?  Just me I suppose.

Rick

I try to save enging boxes and passenger car boxes,,,others no,,,,i wouldn't  have room for it,,,,i really don't put a value on modern boxes,,,,just me

I am a collector's worst nightmare because there is no box sacred to me, and I run everything I own, collectible or not. However, I do save boxes for engines, rolling stock and some structures because they are handy shipping containers when I sell stuff.

Fyi, I contacted Forum Sponsor Stout Auctions regarding a sale of some of my collection. The first thing they asked was fo you HAVE BOXES for ALL YOUR ITEMS TO SELL? They stated without boxes the items DON'T sell or sell for very little.

Apparently their auction services are in high demand and Stout is being selective in what they take in, including accepting items for sale with boxes only.

So consider this point of view as well!

@prrhorseshoecurve,

I've purchased way too much stuff at 3 recent Stout auctions.  I like doing business with them, they are very responsive to customers.  The stuff generally sells for more than the upper appraised value, but not always.  I bought over 15 lots total from the 3 auctions, some with 6 or more items, and all but 1 lot had boxes.

Here's my issue. I stored trains in sections of two buildings for almost 40 years, with my interest in trains going back several decades before that, not thinking about the totality of what I accumulated. In 2020, I sold the property and got an education: where do you put all this stuff? If I were running trains as a business, I would rent storage space. But, its a hobby. Answer: Except for high-end locos, out went the boxes. I have a numbered system of containers where the trains are. I wrap them in paper bags, with rubber bands around. The virtue is the paper acts as packing, so nothing moves. In fact, the containers do not even move. I combine storing and running trains, meaning container #01 = what I run. I am able to maintain an accurate inventory. I also combine running trains with regular maintenance. The result is an even flow of enjoyment. I have displayed trains, but discovered long exposure to whatever is in the air affected the locos, especially the gauge1 items.  So, I stopped. The containers are under my O-Line (Lionel). There is a parallel S-Line (for flyer). I have an ST-Line (standard gauge) ceiling layout (good for climbing, stretching and reaching). And the G-Line (garden railroad, LGB and Maerklin). As I age, I learned walking up and down the stairs to the trains in the basement is excellent exercise, as is working outside on the trains. Plus I walk every other day around the  block. I belong to a Pocono resort in the Summer, where I walk and my Medicare secondary health insurance pays part of the membership for that reason.  I am still a single parent, with two daughters from two different ex-wives living with me and they have their space. So, I do not live the life of a solitary, alienated senior citizen. I am known as "Grand Dude" to my grandchildren who live across the state, whom I visit regularly, taking Amtrak, of course.  My plan is to keep doing what I do until I cannot do it anymore. I have no plans to sell my trains. In fact, whatever I sold in the past I replaced. I am making video's of all my trains (a) for insurance purposes and (b) If I have to go to a home, I will have my laptop and still enjoy my trains. I have other interests, that are off-topic, but which will keep me young (example, tutoring and teaching Liberal Arts, the best major, at the community college).  So, this is how I transitioned to being a "senior citizen" upon retirement, with trains a central element of that transition, without most of the boxes. Mark

@prrhorseshoecurve posted:

Fyi, I contacted Forum Sponsor Stout Auctions regarding a sale of some of my collection. The first thing they asked was fo you HAVE BOXES for ALL YOUR ITEMS TO SELL? They stated without boxes the items DON'T sell or sell for very little.

Most auction sites aren't as picky as Stout.  I definitely do not believe that in general "without boxes the items DON'T sell or sell for very little".  (Being a premium auction house they seem to be spoiled.)

I've bought a large number of things over the last 5 years via auction, from various auction houses.  Many of these items didn't come with a box, including my Vision Line 700E.  The original owners clearly didn't see a need to keep them.

Why did I buy?  They were cheaper without the box and, seeing as I run them and not store them, I don't need the box either.

Don't get me wrong.  Would I prefer the box?  Yes.  Do I absolutely have to have it? No.

Mike

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I've bought lots of stuff without a box.  OTOH, for stuff like higher end locomotives, I know that if I ever sell, the box will make a difference in the asking price, so I make my offer with that in mind.

I too have bought many a runner boxless, I figure if I need a box I will locate one if the price is that great of a swing.