sounds like you lunched the breaker. Easy fix

Is there a video or instructions as specific to the Brick

I've searched and found nothing.

Or should it be done by an authorized person?

It will be an unauthorized repair. Lionel does not offer parts or repair those transformers.  Have you unplugged it to try a reset?

email gunrunnerjohn and ask if he has been inside of one.

fastman posted:

sounds like you lunched the breaker. Easy fix

The brick with the GW-180 is the PowerHouse 180. It's not a simple circuit breaker, it's actually an electronic circuit with a relay.  It's actually not an "easy fix", you're first going to have to see what went wrong.  Yes, it will require opening up the brick.

Aren't these pretty new, you should be able to get Lionel to send you another one under warranty

Warranty is only a year 

And it's past that.

Gunrunnerjohn

Have you ever repaired one?

Yep, somewhat of a PITA, but it's possible.  Obviously, it depends on what actually failed, in my case the 8V regulator had crapped out, easy to find, easy to fix.

Any tips tricks you can share

GRJ?

Not anything earth shattering, I just use that schematic and poke around to see why it's not working.  Of course I have all the tools and test equipment necessary, that makes the job easier.  From the description, I'd be guessing it should be something fairly basic.  The object of the exercise is to see why the relay doesn't function to allow output power.  It might be that the contacts welded when the short happened, that occasionally happens to relays with excessive current.  I'd also check the output AC right at the transformer secondary, some Lionel stuff has an internal fusible link in the windings that goes with an overload.  Hopefully, that's not the issue, it's a non-replaceable part.

Interesting observation, I wonder if they thought of that when they built it?  A PTC internally might be enough to keep it from cooking things, that might be a good thing to add.  It might makes sense to add an inrush current limiter after the tap for the 8V to allow the breaker circuitry to always be active before full current is placed on the output.  Something like the Ametherm SL12 1R010 would probably work well.

PTC???

Also, GRJ..the screws are under the feet, correct?

So the flaw is in an omission of protection??, the schematic flow is accurate?

lionel was n0 help on the phone they advised me to disgard the whole unit

dale h

So..this is actually what I bought 

Anyone interested in buying the controller?

GW-180 180-WATT TRANSFORMERSKU: 6-37947

The valuable part for most is the brick.  It can probably be fixed, but you'd have to open it up and dig into it.  Yes, the screws are under the rubber feet.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

The valuable part for most is the brick.  It can probably be fixed, but you'd have to open it up and dig into it.  Yes, the screws are under the rubber feet.

I opened one of mine. The screws are slotted, but have a safety 'notch' to prevent amateurs from opening them with ordinary flat head screw drivers. I used my Dremel on an old screw driver to create the notch in the blade. Then it was easy to remove the screws. I'm sure GRJ has the professional driver set. 

George

I  am an Electronics Tech, and  have all the proper tools..

but in today's plug and play board replacement cost management agenda..the only time I utilize my Electronics Degree to its fullest is on my Trains...

Fortunately I got the Degree to make MONEY, and since I'm over educated and WELL PAID, I can live with the limits of my Skill Set Requirements of my job.

I install every type of Electronics Communicating System from Fire to Door Security..

I can use an OHM meter to resolve most issues, or a Specially Designed Tester for Specific applications, and most issues are easily identified..and usually a result of a carpenter and his screw gun, or a plumber and his torch...

This schematic is lacking information I need..like Voltage at every component..

and there is a triangle just after Capacitor C2 showing +8 V...which I will assume is a test point only..

and "RIB" I am just guessing is the side of the cord with the little rib..which is usually Neutral..

the PIMA brick is open for all to see..

I see no physical signs..

no burns on components where the Smoke escaped..

no loose solder points

no capacitor confetti

I am getting 5.4 VAC output across Red and Blue..If I'm not far off ..I believe that should be a step down Transformer, producing 18 VAC at that point..

I've googled

and printed the schematic..

now I'm tired..went back to work after  9 days of Vacation..which was seriously MARRED by a loud angry pop...

I will continue my quest later tomorrow...

If any one feels like they can fill in the voltage drops at each component..I would use my clout to get you a better berth in heaven...

assuming that's where you're going.. and you are really patient and can wait for death to arrive before you collect...and if you believe in Heaven.. then you can certainly believe I have clout..which I do..and fortunately, this is one of the many sins, JC hung on a cross to pay for..I am just assuring He is getting His moneys worth..and if you aint laughing.. then pray for a sense of humor...

After all, Jesus hung on a cross before He was 35, what have you done with YOUR little life, Slacker?

http://www.harrisonelectronics...ay-H100FDC-SPDT2.pdf

http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/d...671/WINGS/78L08.html

1drummer posted:

...

and there is a triangle just after Capacitor C2 showing +8 V...which I will assume is a test point only..

the triangle with +8V connects to other triangles with +8V.  If the circuit is functioning you should read +8V DC at that point (relative to the Blue wire).

...

I am getting 5.4 VAC output across Red and Blue..If I'm not far off ..I believe that should be a step down Transformer, producing 18 VAC at that point..

if you are only getting 5.4V AC at Red and Blue instead of 18V AC (and nothing is getting hot in the circuit (i.e., there is no loading of the transformer) then I'm guessing your transformer failed.  if that's non-replaceable as earlier suggested then it seems you're at a dead-end.

...

If any one feels like they can fill in the voltage drops at each component..

Note that if you are only getting 5.4V AC, you won't read +8V DC at the point mentioned above; you'll probably read something like 6-7V DC...though if the non-replaceable transformer failed I'm not sure the point of making additional measurements.

 

Sounds like that transformer does have the internal fusible link in the windings.  If that failed, I don't see that it's a recoverable failure.  Looks like Lionel was right.

Yeah...when I FUBAR stuff 

I don't do it Half-Fast

Good morning:

Band-Good has all types of Switches, Relays and Terminal Stripes.

Free shipping too.

Good luck Guy's, John

Not a very robust design especially if transformer link pops with this kind of overload.  But I guess you have to meet the price point with a design using the least lowest cost components. And how often would you expect the brick to start up into a dead short, and can't design for every possible contingency otherwise you get into gold plated $$$ brick.

Sorta like a Muntz TV if anyone knows about those little devils.

NYC,SUBWAY TRANSIT SIGNAL posted:

Good morning:

Band-Good has all types of Switches, Relays and Terminal Stripes.

Free shipping too.

Good luck Guy's, John

What in the world does this have to do with the topic?

It does not appear to be a "fail safe" design. Any one of many components could have rendered the over-current protection inoperable, yet the output would still be live. It's possible that the over-current protection wasn't working prior to when the output short occurred. How would one know, unless you tested it with an excessive load and not a dead short.

so, in essence.. Lionel made a product that really doesn't offer the protection it should, in the circuit and the warranty..

I sent them a note..

seeking cost and part # for the Step Down with integrated Link..

I suggested they should just warranty the product.

I am thankful I have MTH transformers..including a Z4000 I got used, really cheap, because the display is haywire..it shows outputs that are no where near the true output measured at the terminals..but it is not affecting its output..and not cost effective to address...

and its only on one side..which when I tested it, found that if you use the horn, it will not shut off...but it will power my TIU just fine.

will update when?/ if? I hear back from lionel.

The operation was a success...lol

Glad you're not my doctor :-)

PLCProf posted:

Well!

Decided to put my money where my mouth was, I figured maybe Lionel knew something that I didn't; maybe the resistance of the output lead was enough to let the circuitry work even with a short or something like that.

Took a spare brick, shorted the output and brought it up slowly on the variac. It tripped twice at about 45 amps on the secondary, about 30% primary voltage, third time I got the nasty pop! Primary is now open as measured at the plug. Guess I'll pull it apart and look for the fusible link.

As they say, the operation was a success, but the patient died.

I will note that the "legal" purpose of overcurrent protection is to protect life and property, so in that regard the protection appears satisfactory.

OK - Call me an idiot.............

So, what is the scenario where this happens, a large peice of metal across the rails when power comes on with voltage already dialed up?  I had mine hooked up to my ZW-C last night. I had a short to a metal frame on an accessory light when I turned the power on. Voltage was set to 7.5 volts when I applied power.  My brick's breaker popped immediately.  I tried again, same thing.  I started disconnecting things and found the short. Is there a scenario in my situation where I could have blown the brick?

Thanks,

George

Electricity is a weird and wild animal

So, there is always a scenario...

PLCProf posted:

OK lots to talk about.

As posted above, I shorted the output of a PH-180, energized it, and got the "angry pop." However, things did not turn out as they were assumed.

1. The 120 VAC side had no continuity through the plug. It was assumed that a fusible link in the transformer had failed, but this was not the case. The open was in the switch! In attached photo "Switch" the upper left contact is extremely loose and discolored. Switch was unwired and bypassed, resistance across the line plug now read about 1.2 ohms. Unit was energized, but output measured with a DVM was only 6 volts.

2. I identified the transformer secondary leads under the circuit board, and they showed full voltage. A careful review of the board. however, showed a soot flash in the vicinity of D2. D2 tested good. It was then noted that there was almost no solder on the pad immediately to the left of D2, which is the connection for one of the relay contacts. Careful measurements showed no continuity from the relay pin to the pad. (photo "Board before"). This connection was resoldered (photo "Board after) and the unit tested out fine (photo "Testing.") Apparently the overcurrent vaporized what little solder may have been there to begin with.

 

2 morals to this story-

1. PH-180 doesn't like to be turned on with the output shorted.

2. Fusible link in the transformer may not be the source of failure.

 

Gotta run, heading over to the supply house to see if I can get a new switch.

Easy fix.  I replaced a switch on one of mine, just to get the LED working, and I am a novice.

George

If I had one of these, I think I would add a 10 A. fuse to the output.

Interesting developments, good luck finding that switch.

"Apparently the overcurrent vaporized what little solder may have been there to begin with."

So it was fused after all.

Dave

PLCProf posted:

OK lots to talk about.

As posted above, I shorted the output of a PH-180, energized it, and got the "angry pop." However, things did not turn out as they were assumed.

1. The 120 VAC side had no continuity through the plug. It was assumed that a fusible link in the transformer had failed, but this was not the case. The open was in the switch! In attached photo "Switch" the upper left contact is extremely loose and discolored. Switch was unwired and bypassed, resistance across the line plug now read about 1.2 ohms. Unit was energized, but output measured with a DVM was only 6 volts.

2. I identified the transformer secondary leads under the circuit board, and they showed full voltage. A careful review of the board. however, showed a soot flash in the vicinity of D2. D2 tested good. It was then noted that there was almost no solder on the pad immediately to the left of D2, which is the connection for one of the relay contacts. Careful measurements showed no continuity from the relay pin to the pad. (photo "Board before"). This connection was resoldered (photo "Board after) and the unit tested out fine (photo "Testing.") Apparently the overcurrent vaporized what little solder may have been there to begin with.

 

2 morals to this story-

1. PH-180 doesn't like to be turned on with the output shorted.

2. Fusible link in the transformer may not be the source of failure.

 

Gotta run, heading over to the supply house to see if I can get a new switch.

This one? I found a couple on ebay once and can send you one if you need. No charge .

I also replaced the LED on one once, I think I added a diode to protect the LED from the reverse half cycle as well. Seems like there was a resistor in the lead to the LED in the wiring...

Here it is, what I found,

Interesting discoveries here, hope you find a switch and can save the patient PLCProf.

Hopefully the OP can revive his as well. 

I wonder if Lionel fixed this in the new PowerHouse 180 design, are you going to test it again?

"Thank you for the kind offer, but I just got back and they had exactly what I needed. It wasn't free, but I got the part I needed late on a Saturday afternoon! Even got the correct wire terminal one, not the PC mount version as in the original."

Ah yes, the exact one. The ones I have are terminal lugs too. Good to know the switch is available.

I have to give you credit for risking your brick, interesting result.

Lucky the switch was available.