I think my led did look a bit dimmer, so I lowered the resistor value.
gunrunnerjohn posted:It's interesting that you found a relay in a 135W brick since all of them that I've seen simply have a thermal circuit breaker in the secondary. The PH180 units are the ones with the electronic circuit protection and the relay.
John-- Well, now I'm wondering. I'd said here that it was an early version 135w. Perhaps it was a late version, It's all so long ago now (ran an NYC 2380 with this stuff, so late '96). I used to keep a brick open on a spare coffee table, along with an open TMCC base and open 135w PowerMaster. I had spares of all these as my backup system. The PM was the early one that lacked the wire link that measured overcurrent and protected the triacs. But I powered it mostly with the fused (7A?) link cord from a postwar ZW. So maybe it was somewhat later I got the small bricks.
What I do remember clearly is that the circuit board had a Millionspot enclosed relay on it with their part number on it. Unlike today they had a website with some data than I cannot find today (i.e. meaning of the suffixes "-3-C"). [I later tonight confirmed my recollection that 3 is the quality of contact material (silver/cadmium oxide, best offered) and C the SPDT-type contacts, as in the 180w PH, per your schematic, which was a 15A relay]. But the relay I saw I clearly remember as being only a 10A relay. I dimly remember the contact material being the least quality offered ("-1"?). I clearly remember it was a 135w brick I ran the short circuit test on (77A), and that I was worried the test would wreck the circuit board, but that may have been later and a different 135w brick. [I later, before posting, confirmed that the 10A relay could not interrupt 77A even with the best contact material; discussion possibly later.]
My short circuit test is different than the one in this thread, and would not damage a transformer lacking electronics; it did not damage the test transformer. I usually posted my test, calculation, or observation (no pix) results, and saved an electronic copy. But that was 3 failed computers ago and an XP hard drive eaten by Win7. Perhaps my notebooks have something. All my TMCC/Legacy layouts have been seasonal floor layouts; no help there. I'll try to dig up the Rev # of the transformer I opened and that it was 135w.
Cam's drawing that you posted was one I did not have at the time. I had gotten some directly from him (IIRC), back in the day. I had always considered him a genius to be able to decipher those double-sided boards. Looking at your drawing of the 180w PH, I recalled how I'd wanted to know how that board worked-- I was particularly interested in the margin beyond 10A, and the time delay, delays being difficult to measure with ordinary test gear. It was just impossible to see where all the traces went, so Cam must have been able to recognize all types of circuits at a glance, just as many can recognize a power supply section or an output stage. Then I realized that if he could recognize everything in between at a glance, he could have designed this board... . So Cam might have been the designer of all this stuff. He and Neil Young could have wanted these boards to be repairable, and made the necessary information available. Not necessarily economical to do so, of course.
Did a board repair on a 9-pin printer once with no diagram and no replacement DC/DC converter small enough for the space, only because it was irreplaceable and part of a system that printed my small Super O layout down to the individual ties. This was before the commercial programs. So I have to admire all the effort going into repairs in this thread.
--Frank
So, I responded to Lionels email twice, which resulted in two more responses stating they will answer me within 3 days...
So, they haven't actually completed the "step up".. :-)
And now I see the continuity across 1b is through the led.
But, wouldn't that still serve as a contact lug I could solder to, and the result would be no red light?
Because it's a SPST switch..correct?
the neutral or - (whatever you want to call it) only goes to the switch to make the LED light, I believe. If someone wanted to test by removing the switch from the circuit, you would connect the middle terminal wire to the bottom, single one. The hot would go from the plug (smaller prong) right to the transformer.
I'm not an electrician, and I'm only guessing here!
Engineer Joe-- Re your comment to me in another thread, that you were a long time member, that explains why I thought your name was familiar when I saw it. In those days,, I had 70 posts, and had been thinking if I reached 100 posts I was spending too much time on this. 
On the routing of the hot wire, (sometimes called positive) wire, it would have to be routed such that it is interrupted by the shutoff switch under discussion (line-side switch). The neutral cannot be switched. To ensure this, the plug would have to be polarized, and the line cord have an identified neutral conductor (by a rib on the insulation of one wire, usually). Somehow moving the switch to off (it is SPST) would also have to extinguish the LED or light (once pilot lights were neon glow bulbs).
Hope this helps. Also, do I remember correctly that some of these were shipped incorrectly polarized, needing a special input plug or bridge on the secondary to connect to the 1st electronic ZW? Or was this a problem in that ZW... No, couldn't have been, as not everyone needed the adapter. Or was it just certain ZW's. Can't remember. Someone will know.
--Frank
F Maguire posted:Hope this helps. Also, do I remember correctly that some of these were shipped incorrectly polarized, needing a special input plug or bridge on the secondary to connect to the 1st electronic ZW? Or was this a problem in that ZW... No, couldn't have been, as not everyone needed the adapter. Or was it just certain ZW's. Can't remember. Someone will know.
--Frank
I thought it was those CW80s or whatever the nomenclature was that was miswired. If you cut off and sent cord(?) back Lionel sent a new CW80. But I too could be wrong, senior moment, senility etc.
It's not the quantity of posts that I watch. It's the quality. Thank you for responding, I'm honored. Somewhere on an older hacked computer stored away, I have some of your posts I use as a base to go by.
I remember something about incorrectly polarized models too. I do check the ones I get.
It was the bricks...
cjack posted:It was the bricks...
Specifically the 180 W bricks, and only with certain lot date codes. (I don't know if that detail is still available on Lionel's site, but I think it used to be).
My questionable memory off the top of my head thinks it might have been somewhere around week 48 of the year 2000? Not sure if that makes sense for when the 180 Watt brick version of the ZW came out or not. (that being the break point for after that date not affected)
I find myself wondering if I care enough to order some of those switches referenced in other posts. One of my 180 Bricks also suffered the burned out indicator, but has worked fine other than that.
-Dave
Engineer-Joe posted:It's not the quantity of posts that I watch. It's the quality. Thank you for responding, I'm honored. Somewhere on an older hacked computer stored away, I have some of your posts I use as a base to go by.
I remember something about incorrectly polarized models too. I do check the ones I get.
As far as a corrupted hard drive goes..this will allow you access to get your data..provided you still have the hard drive...if it fails to allow access the first time..put in a ZIPLOCK BAG..and freeze it for at least 12 hours...
Connects to your new PC by USB..it powers the drive and allows you to access files and transfer them...
I use it to get photos and documents off of my WINDOWS dinosaurs
From even my Win 95..my first PC..bought in Nov 95 from Sears..for a whopping $3,600 ..
We were the first in my family to get a HOME PC...family saw it at Christmas and were more interested in the screen saver ART DRAWING PROGRAM than the fact we could connect to the WEB...
Win 98,
Win ME..Proof engineers should not design final product..the only PC that froze because it couldn't determine which DNS to use..so you had to assign a local server in order to take away that "complex decision" from the Machine...
Win XP...the best in my opinion.
And soon to be Win 7...
With a 1Terabyte SD CARD..you can store EVERYTHING
Attachments
Images (1)
F Maguire posted:
On the routing of the hot wire, (sometimes called positive) wire, it would have to be routed such that it is interrupted by the shutoff switch under discussion (line-side switch). The neutral cannot be switched. To ensure this, the plug would have to be polarized, and the line cord have an identified neutral conductor (by a rib on the insulation of one wire, usually). Somehow moving the switch to off (it is SPST) would also have to extinguish the LED or light (once pilot lights were neon glow bulbs).
--Frank
The AC plug is polarized, but put your ohmmeter on the narrow AC plug prong (which you identified in a post up there somewhere), and find the other end in the brick. That is the end you want to connect to the pole of the switch. That would be the lug you identified as lug "1a".
Dave45681 posted:cjack posted:It was the bricks...
I find myself wondering if I care enough to order some of those switches referenced in other posts. One of my 180 Bricks also suffered the burned out indicator, but has worked fine other than that.
-Dave
Get them. Cheap enough on ebay. I bought some and only used one so far, but I sleep easier now .
I will wait further instructions from Lionel
But I believe the RIB is correct on mine
Just got confirmation from Lionel
They are still authorizing my RMA
So, I will be sending it in today.
1drummer posted:Just got confirmation from Lionel
They are still authorizing my RMA
So, I will be sending it in today.
Great news! Hooray for Lionel!
