Brightline hits people

You cannot fix STUPID. Over 40 years ago I regularly took the SEPTA commuter train from Bucks County to Philly. The rails were shared with Amtrak. Every year one or two people were killed because they would try to cross the tracks instead of using the pedestrian underpass. The Metroliners were quiet and fast. You cannot fix this problem.

Gerry

I just hope they can sort it out and the line is popular enough to move up into areas where we have connections.  Who knows maybe I'll have one on my layout sometime...

Here’s a tongue in cheek suggestion; we require all citizens of southeast Florida who live with two miles either side of the Brightline tracks to begin wearing dog collars capable of delivering a mild electric shock.  When a train approaches a crossing or pedestrian crosswalk; an underground electrical wire is activated and anyone attempting to cross will receive a mild shock.  

This works to keep dogs in their yards; perhaps it would work to keep clueless people off the tracks.  😉

Curt

Topic title should be changed to “people walk in front of moving train”. 

I think maybe the gates come down too slowly.  Near the end of the article they gave a 40 second time line for an approach. 15 seconds of that bring the gates down. That's long enough for folks to try to cheat and lose the bet.

This "news" is a year old. At the time, these trains were very new.

Here's a more recent article on the topic. It mixes the personal, various stats, proposed mitigations and other related issues confronting the new line.  I hope they get it sorted out and can run the trains north to other population centers.  It's on my list to take a ride soon.

https://www.miaminewtimes.com/...uth-florida-11089400

Commuter trains have killed hundreds over the years in Chicago. Many of them were passengers running across the tracks to board the train.

Hers an OLD chart.

So,,,,,,after reading all this, just how has the subject trains been diverting off the tracks in order to "kill people"? As the current news media is proc to report, "The Amtrak train killed the elderly couple at the grade crossing in XXXXXXX!". Never mind the fact that those killed, in fact drove around the lowered warning gates with all the lights & bells activated. Those darned trains are simply killing way to many humans!

Miami New Times writes “Most railroad fatalities are the result of ‘trespassing,’ a technical term that some family members find cruel.”

Seriously?  

Well I'm just pointing out overall I think that it still falls to the train organizations to get a safety record that communities can live with.

Brightline is a great example of what appears to be a huge success overall, but they aren't likely to expand into say the Disney area if all they do is flatten tourist now and again -- at least at the rate that appears to be occurring right now in the Miami area...

Even if it's because the people ignore the signals, walk on the track and so forth.  Look at Disney and the alligators for a similar style issue, just for example.

Last year, we took Brightline from Ft. Lauderdale to W. Palm Beach. Nice trains, nice employees, but the ride took 2x the "normal" time to get there. We crawled most of the way for fear of hitting someone. 

This is not good.  Obviously hitting people is bad.  That goes to a degree without saying. They need to solve this problem -- keeping in mind that no system is perfect.  I don't know exactly what the issues are overall ... but partially of course in the ideal they'd have their own corridor ... which they do not have...  fencing and other features to the existing line perhaps can be added.  Again, people should not try to beat the gate and all that, yet people will try because that's what people do -- so maybe the gates can be changed to better protect against that etc...

But if you'd just rather take the car and I'm like this myself, if it's easier and faster to take the car even with taking into account half the time there are traffic jams... then the train will fail.

No matter how idiot proof you make something, someone will build a better idiot.

I wonder if the guy went back for his shoe:

And finally, mass idiocy.  The race is more important than your life:

Rusty

Severn posted:

 

But if you'd just rather take the car and I'm like this myself, if it's easier and faster to take the car even with taking into account half the time there are traffic jams.

Yes. Although you can park your car at a Brightline station garage, you still need a taxi to get where you are going at your destination, unless you work or shop near a station (very unlikely in Ft. Lauderdale, at least). If you are going to Miami Beach, it's a fairly long distance from the station.

As far as the planned Orlando destination goes, you will need a rental car or a hotel/theme park pick-up bus. 

Har, I love that old vid of the riders splitting the field by train.  Anyway -- the stations need to go right where people want to go, or most people.  After that walking, taxi or subway.  Well there's no subway. Finally car rental if you are then going out into the hinterlands.

If we built the Great Walls along the RoW of every track in the country, people would climb over them just to get killed.

I would think gate down activated spike strips might help at car crossings.   Maybe that seems a bit draconian, maybe not.

OK, how many people are killed along the same section of I95 each year?

Dominic Mazoch posted:

OK, how many people are killed along the same section of I95 each year?

Drivers, or pedestrians walking into the traffic lanes?

Road deaths are very high 40k about per year in the US overall -- but we tolerate it (note that this exactly anything to proud of).   Rail, train and bus don't have nearly so many -- but they also do not have the same level of tolerance for accidents by folks.

Hot Water posted:

Dominic Mazoch posted:

OK, how many people are killed along the same section of I95 each year?

Drivers, or pedestrians walking into the traffic lanes?

All total, with breakdown of type.  In a way, both.

I'm not sure what you're looking for Servern.  A way to prevent these deaths?  You just can't.  Too many people do too many stupid things.  A way to keep the RRs out of court?  Too many shar---uh, I mean lawyers.  A fool-proof preventative?  Too many fools.

Short of cocooning the entire race in bubbles and not letting them out, this sort of thing will happen.   Find a more possible cause to crusade for, like ending poverty or building a bridge from LA to Honolulu.

People and vehicles have been hit by trains from almost day 1. The thinning of the herd.

The point is for this private venture to succeed, they're going to need community support.  Perhaps right now their of idea of running on high(er) speed  trains over existing freight track... isn't going to work out for them.  Or perhaps they just need a few tweaks to crossings, and folks in these communities only need to adjust their behavior which they learned form the freight trains which are slower.

NEWS FLASH: According to today's South Florida Sun Sentinel, Brightline is now called Virgin Trains USA (I'll not comment ). The article reports that new stations are being looked at...the airport, cruise ship port, and for the future Orlando line, Disney World (which would be 20 miles closer). The reporter makes no mention if the airport and seaport stations are in Ft. Lauderdale or Miami (so what else is new?). The new name is a result of the fact that the owner of Virgin Airlines is also a major money source for the train line.

It's not the train. The problem in South Florida is just that there are lots and lots of old people there and some of them get dumber and stupider the older they get. Have you ever driven a car around there? Broward and Dade counties have some of the absolute worst drivers in the world. They run red lights, ignore stop signs and obviously, railroad crossings are taken just about as seriously as cracks in the sidewalk. Whenever I'm driving down there I feel like I'm taking my life in my hands. I was in Deerfield last month and was going down a one-way street and had to dodge not one, but two cars going the wrong way! I didn't get a good look at the drivers but my wife told me she saw lots of white hair both times.

Are you referring to this?  https://www.miamiherald.com/ne...rticle228474024.html

I think all this is a big deal really.  It's a private venture, and I hope it succeeds.   Might be "fun" to own some bonds.

Here's some biz related news:

https://www.law.com/dailybusin...eturn=20190227104827

Oh boy....back on point, HERE...the obvious problem really is the stupidity and inattentiveness of these people gambling with their life to beat a train. Cannot wait a few minutes?  Please don't tell me you are driving and reading these words...

Brightline now is the deadliest RR/ mile in the US.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/ma...than-any-other-in-us

We have about one person killed per month by a train in the SF Bay Area.  About half are suicides and the other half are just stupid as explained above.  Unfortunately, many of the suicides are teenagers.  It is really hard to fix both stupid and depression.   NH Joe

Just a dumb thought, but how many alligators, snakes, dogs & cats has the train run over?  No one has complained from animal rights groups?  I guess mostly humans are the only creatures dumb enough to get in front of a train... for any reason. 

We all are stewards of our time (money) and body.  However, when something goes wrong we blame others.  Personal responsibility is in short supply.

One could be led to believe that those trains did not have wheels with flanges, that they can veer off to one side at will just to hurt someone.  I bet there are people who think the engineer has a steering wheel.

And to think that many of these people drive and vote.  It's remarkable that we as a people have made it this far..........

Farmer_Bill posted:

Miami New Times writes “Most railroad fatalities are the result of ‘trespassing,’ a technical term that some family members find cruel.”

 

Seriously?  

 

Truth hurts.  Then again, seems people do not understand the concept of private property.

Tom Tee posted:

We all are stewards of our time (money) and body.  However, when something goes wrong we blame others.  Personal responsibility is in short supply.

One could be led to believe that those trains did not have wheels with flanges, that they can veer off to one side at will just to hurt someone.  I bet there are people who think the engineer has a steering wheel.

And to think that many of these people drive and vote.  It's remarkable that we as a people have made it this far..........

One of the Operation Lifesaver slides talks about the fact trains cannot steer like a car!

Seems sort of ironic to have something called the "brightline" in a state known specifically for it's residents not meeting that criteria...

People really are stupid.  I use to live near the old Erie Pascack Valley line.  People would walk on the track instead of the street or sidewalk because it was, apparently, a more direct route.  Invariably someone would get hit once or twice every month.  NJT put up a fence; morons cut holes in the fence so they could walk on the track.

The title of this thread is "Brightline hits people." That is not correct.

It SHOULD read, "Stupid People Keep Walking in Front of Brightline Trains."

I'm sorry, but there is NO WAY this is the railroad's fault.

Not to shake up the pot but If  I had a back hoe on  MY property and some little ones sat and somehow moved it and ran over and killed someone I be in trouble .. Point is if it happened on railroad property  the railroad has to answer to the  reason... why or how they are not to be blamed