Buffett's BNSF Open to Bid for Norfolk to Challenge CP's Offer
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/...?cmpid=yhoo.headline
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Very interesting (as Arte from Laugh In used to say)!
Looks like there might be more denizens of the Isle of Denial...and more "pumpkins."
The plot thickens.
Hmmmm. What a mess. A BNSF/NS combination would make at least a little sense, in creating a true trans-continental railroad. Other then one-shipper billing, perhaps a smoother Chicago interchange, and head-count reductions, don't see any gigantic benefits to the USA or the railroad industry in such a combination. But it makes a heck of a lot more sense then a CP/NS combo. Just a pointless mess being created by Pershing Sq/Harrison/CP.
Just wonder how much money might be wasted running up share prices in a bidding war? Money much better spent on equipment and physical plant improvements.
I just can't imagine going from 7 railroads. Down to 3 railroads in North America. If one merges they all will.
I don't quite understand why any merger talks are taking place. Is CP just super desperate to try and expand? And this may be my gross ignorance but I wasn't aware that NS was in any way ever interested with a merge with anyone.
Keep in mind..............BNSF / (Berkshire) has Deep Pockets.................. more than $66 billion in cash at the end of the third quarter. Bill Ackman / Pershing Square / CP would need to borrow money to get the merger financed.
Swafford posted:Keep in mind..............BNSF / (Berkshire) has Deep Pockets.................. more than $66 billion in cash at the end of the third quarter. Bill Ackman / Pershing Square / CP would need to borrow money to get the merger financed.
This sounds a lot more promising than a CP buy out with funds waiting and ready. As long as Stb approves.
Would have to assume that Pershing Square Capital is confident in it's ability to scrounge up capital for an NS run. One other factor on the capital side - - - money is real cheap now! Good time to do big deals, unfortunately. Again, hope STB puts the big squashola on this caper.
Just like the previous merger, I hope this does not happen. If it does, hopefully the steam program will have a chance to continue!
ES44AC posted:Just like the previous merger, I hope this does not happen. If it does, hopefully the steam program will have a chance to continue!
With the money invested the steamers. I'd would say they will find a way. Maybe not but I would think so.
I'll bet some of the folks that run the J 611 would like a once in a life time shot, at some of the flat straight track out west. Not for sure if the 40mph max is west of the Mississippi or not......................................................
When firms / investors / hedge funds have more money than they know what do with it, they start looking to buy something whether it makes sense or not. This is how organizations get too big to manage or to fail.
NH Joe
Ackman and Harrison plan to retire to a life of Golf and Horses, so they have concocted this scheme that looks like they want to operate another railroad.
Real underlying reason for this merger effort.......and Dupont/Dow, Walgreens/RiteAid/ AT&T and T Mobile, Pfizer/Allergan, CP/NS? Monopolistic pricing. The chemical giants work quietly behind the curtain, the railroads' impact is priced into goods quietly, beyond the purview of Joe Sixpack and Sally Housecoat. Everyone will forget about each of these potential mergers, but will notice less money for trains, less money for food, less money for transportation, clothing, rent/housing, etc. The "big boys" will be in their gated communities and not noticing much of anything. The Sherman Anti-Trust Act of 1890 was passed for good reason. Hold onto your wallets!
If this goes through poor UP will be left with CSX. Good luck to them. I always thought UP would go after NS. Perhaps there will be 3 way fight.
Speculation from several Wall Street analysts is that Matt's comments were intended as a signal to the STB. Remember; under the current merger review process, the Board must consider how one merger may cause other railroads to react. Matt's comments leave no doubt how at least BNSF might react.
Curt
Mergers 101 by STB: STB will reject the merger which will send a strong message to all the Class 1 railroads...........don't even think about it!
Its fun to speculate. If we project BNSF with NS; UP with CSX.
If CP then can merge with Kansas City Central, we would have four transcontinental RRs, all four with west coast ports, east coast ports (CP makes it to NYC, CN to Montreal on the St Lawrence and Halifax), access to the Gulf of Mexico, and Great Lakes access.
How does that look?
Ken-Oscale posted:Its fun to speculate. If we project BNSF with NS; UP with CSX.
If CP then can merge with Kansas City Central, we would have four transcontinental RRs, all four with west coast ports, east coast ports (CP makes it to NYC, CN to Montreal on the St Lawrence and Halifax), access to the Gulf of Mexico, and Great Lakes access.
How does that look?
I'm actually surprised the Kansas City Southern's managed to elude merger mania all these years. They must be doing something right.
Rusty
lewrail posted:If this goes through poor UP will be left with CSX. Good luck to them. I always thought UP would go after NS. Perhaps there will be 3 way fight.
What do you think BNSF stands for? Buy Norfolk Southern First!
Stuart
ES44AC posted:Just like the previous merger, I hope this does not happen. If it does, hopefully the steam program will have a chance to continue!
Brandon Cole posted:With the money invested the steamers. I'd would say they will find a way. Maybe not but I would think so.
NS has no money invested in any steam locomotives. All the locomotives used in the steam program are owned and operated by other entities.
The steam program has been scaled back for 2016. Obviously NS has other, much more important things to worry about right now.
If a merger must take place, a NS/BNSF merger would be a much better deal for all concerned than NS/CP.
OGR Webmaster posted:ES44AC posted:Just like the previous merger, I hope this does not happen. If it does, hopefully the steam program will have a chance to continue!
Brandon Cole posted:With the money invested the steamers. I'd would say they will find a way. Maybe not but I would think so.
NS has no money invested in any steam locomotives. All the locomotives used in the steam program are owned and operated by other entities.
The steam program has been scaled back for 2016. Obviously NS has other, much more important things to worry about right now.
If a merger must take place, a NS/BNSF merger would be a much better deal for all concerned than NS/CP.
NS donated 1.5million to the VMT to get 611 fired up. I haven't heard anything about being scaled back? I haven't heard anything at all.
Brandon Cole posted:OGR Webmaster posted:ES44AC posted:Just like the previous merger, I hope this does not happen. If it does, hopefully the steam program will have a chance to continue!
Brandon Cole posted:With the money invested the steamers. I'd would say they will find a way. Maybe not but I would think so.
NS has no money invested in any steam locomotives. All the locomotives used in the steam program are owned and operated by other entities.
The steam program has been scaled back for 2016. Obviously NS has other, much more important things to worry about right now.
If a merger must take place, a NS/BNSF merger would be a much better deal for all concerned than NS/CP.
NS donated 1.5million to the VMT to get 611 fired up. I haven't heard anything about being scaled back? I haven't heard anything at all.
Me nether.
ES44AC posted:Brandon Cole posted:OGR Webmaster posted:ES44AC posted:Just like the previous merger, I hope this does not happen. If it does, hopefully the steam program will have a chance to continue!
Brandon Cole posted:With the money invested the steamers. I'd would say they will find a way. Maybe not but I would think so.
NS has no money invested in any steam locomotives. All the locomotives used in the steam program are owned and operated by other entities.
The steam program has been scaled back for 2016. Obviously NS has other, much more important things to worry about right now.
If a merger must take place, a NS/BNSF merger would be a much better deal for all concerned than NS/CP.
NS donated 1.5million to the VMT to get 611 fired up. I haven't heard anything about being scaled back? I haven't heard anything at all.
Me nether.
Neither of you two guys, nor anybody else, will hear if & when the NS 21st century steam program will be "scaled back". The real reality will come next year if & when NS formally announces the NEXT schedule of steam operations with NKP 765, or Tennessee Vally Railroad Museum 4501 & 630, or the VMT owned 611. That 2016 "schedule" will be the proof in the pudding, so to speak.
Hot Water posted:ES44AC posted:Brandon Cole posted:OGR Webmaster posted:ES44AC posted:Just like the previous merger, I hope this does not happen. If it does, hopefully the steam program will have a chance to continue!
Brandon Cole posted:With the money invested the steamers. I'd would say they will find a way. Maybe not but I would think so.
NS has no money invested in any steam locomotives. All the locomotives used in the steam program are owned and operated by other entities.
The steam program has been scaled back for 2016. Obviously NS has other, much more important things to worry about right now.
If a merger must take place, a NS/BNSF merger would be a much better deal for all concerned than NS/CP.
NS donated 1.5million to the VMT to get 611 fired up. I haven't heard anything about being scaled back? I haven't heard anything at all.
Me nether.
Neither of you two guys, nor anybody else, will hear if & when the NS 21st century steam program will be "scaled back". The real reality will come next year if & when NS formally announces the NEXT schedule of steam operations with NKP 765, or Tennessee Vally Railroad Museum 4501 & 630, or the VMT owned 611. That 2016 "schedule" will be the proof in the pudding, so to speak.
Exactly ^ we will know when they do a press release of the schedule. I think I speak for all of us rail fans when I say I can't wait for the next one. I had a great time behind 611 this year.
Before deciding to go all-in with BNSF, Berkshire Hathaway's investments were amongst BNSF, UP, and NS. I wonder if that past relationship has any bearing on this...
Brandon Cole posted:NS donated 1.5million to the VMT to get 611 fired up.
There is a huge difference between a "donation" and an "investment." There is no expectation of a return with a donation.
I haven't heard anything about being scaled back? I haven't heard anything at all.
I have...
Reading, Blue Mountain & Northern Ontario?
OGR Webmaster posted:Brandon Cole posted:NS donated 1.5million to the VMT to get 611 fired up.
There is a huge difference between a "donation" and an "investment." There is no expectation of a return with a donation.
I haven't heard anything about being scaled back? I haven't heard anything at all.
I have...
One of the perks of having a dog in the fight!
OGR Webmaster posted:Brandon Cole posted:NS donated 1.5million to the VMT to get 611 fired up.
There is a huge difference between a "donation" and an "investment." There is no expectation of a return with a donation.
I haven't heard anything about being scaled back? I haven't heard anything at all.
I have...
Rich can you tell us what you have heard about excursions for 2016? I agree with your investment vs donation statement as well. I just think they wouldn't have parted with that amount of money if they didn't want to see it run IMO.
Thanks for your time Rich.
Brandon
Well they won't have to change the name BNSF (Burlington Northern Norfolk Southern Santa Fe) 
As Wile E. Coyote (Super Genius) would say, "I like the way that rolls out..."
rtr12 posted:As Wile E. Coyote (Super Genius) would say, "I like the way that rolls out..."
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It has a train in it, so it's train related too!
Now, back to our regularly scheduled programming on rail road mergers...
Why the urge to merge. Hunter getting boarded?
But there is another issue. If there is just BNSF/NS, only the Surf Board would be involved. But if you have CP.NS, you have both the Surf, and I think Transport Canada involved..
And who wants to have a major rail merger during as the US prepares to vote for the electors who will elect the next president. NOT A GOOD IDEA!
I read that CP is arguing that they can ease the Chicago congestion by routing trains over their network to avoid the windy city. Through Toronto perhaps? CP made a third offer for NS recently, with an extra option that would increase/guarantee NS shareholders a minimum cash payoff.
CP has presented 3 offers with money that they do not have! CP would need to borrow a great deal of money. My thinking..................STB will never approve of this merger!
One thing KCS does NOT have is its own tracks from Rosenberg TX to the Beaumont TX area. They have to use trckage rights mostly on UP in the Houston area.
