Building 3-RS track?

You can buy 2 rail Gargraves and Ross turnouts without the third rail

Clem

Hmmm... interesting.

I may have to try this.  Is anyone actually doing it?  I was thinking of just doing this for the foreground track, an keep regular Atlas O 3-rail for the background.

Thanks,

Mario

Marker and I have both done a series on this subject. Just search atlas 1/48 2 rail to 3 rail I believe. When you see my pictures of trains running by a cliff that is all 1/48.

I knew you did, Ron!  My memory hasn't failed me, yet.

Do you have a problem with 3-rail flanges bouncing along the ties?

Thanks,

Mario

PS - Is that a K-Line Hudson with extra details?  I think you did that in a separate post, can you share the link?  How about the scale pilot wheels?

N track rail is used by some for the outside 3rd rail effect, makes a nice addition to a subway layout, first time I saw this was at the NJ Hi-Railers back in 2009 when I was a member we soldered the N gauge rail to screws, they may have some pictures on their web pages.

Jack

Mario,

My tutorial is under my name and titled, Changing Scaletrax for atlas code 148 with third rail. The date was May 9, 2014.

Ron

Mario,

That is a scale Kline Hudson and I did several post on adding detail.

Some oscale wheels do not work and I change them. Most do.

Thanks, I found the PSC brake conversion post, and I'll have to order the wheel sets (NWSL?)

Thanks,

Mario

"I recall seeing somewhere, I think in a post b Ron H., about using 2-rail track and adding an N scale rail spiked down the center to minimize the height of the power rail...

Is this true?"

    I don't think it would be worth the trouble. you'd still have to ramp up to normal rail height for the rollers to get thru turnouts and crossings. Seems like it would be easier to just switch to 2 rail if the center rail bothers you? ....DaveB 

DaveB,

I think you're right, it would be easier, but no.

Thanks,

Mario

We were down and the Hagerstown Roundhouse Museum and they use Atlas 2 rail track and hand lay HO rail for the center.  They claim it works well.  Pics attached.

Ron

Looks a bit awkward; guess that HO rail is just cheap or free? 

I think I'm going to do a diorama and see how it comes out...

Yeah, what are you guys going to do when battery power and command control become the norm?  Use a plastic center rail?

If you like the center rail, it is easy enough to add in any size rail, or even square stock.  As noted above, rather than modify miles of track, it is easier to convert your rolling stock to 2-rail.

That is not true for folks with dozens of locomotives, of course.  They are stuck with center rails and transformers long after the rest of us convert to Rc and battery.

Bob2, you hit it right on the head!

I have too much 3-rail stuff to turn back now, and no layout.

I myself fell down the slippery slope!

Two things. Ramping up the n scale rail is no problem whatsoever and two; when and if rc comes along with the same features and sound quality of TMCC the third rail will be snatched off. Easy peasy !

Actually, folks with dozens of locomotive (the "I have too much invested... chant") could just sell it all off and re-invest,

Actually, folks with dozens of locomotive (the "I have too much invested... chant") could just sell it all off and re-invest

There is no reason why they can not coexist on the same layout if you like all of your traditional 3 rail stuff. 

Did folks sell off all of their Postwar and Conventional trains when DCS and TMCC came to town?  Most likely they figured out how to run it all.

The only folks I can see selling it off are those who despise the 3rd rail.  Someone brand new into the hobby, might go 100% to the 2 rail RC route as well.

Ron

You might note I stated "could".  I know all too many that did sell off their nest egg and go totally 2 rail.

I still have a level of hand laid code 148 3 rail just to run my pre-war stuff and some other oddities....

I'm doing the track like this for my round house.  I think it'll look great.

Mario - I'll try to bring you a piece today.

Keep us up to date on the progress, I'd love to see it in place...

Thanks,

Mario

Great post Mario - a subject dear to my heart!

Personally, I like what Marker and RonH have done with using Atlas 2 rail and adding the smaller center one. The photos posted from the Hagersville Museum layout appear awkward with the risers - not needed from what I understand.

I've experimented with Atlas 3R and ScaleTrax  and replaced the oversized center rail of the Atlas with the inverted T from ScaleTrax and it looks much better than the stock Atlas track. As much as I've been a proponent of ScaleTrax over the years, I find that the tie spacing still bothers me so much that I've sold at all off. If able to rebuild I will have to decide which system to go with.

Even thought about 2 rail as the stuff is beautiful but I like my Lionel locomotives which as far as I know can't be converted to 2 rail... 

Nice photo, Howard. Is my ATSF/CNW influence spreading? Next I'll be seeing signage "Santa Fe/Nortwestern -- Eastern Division".

"Nice photo, Howard. Is my ATSF/CNW influence spreading?"

   Wow, that's about the best I've seen 3 rail track look. Being a 2 railer who's never built a 3 rail turnout I've got a couple of questions. First where do you put  the insulating gaps so the power pick up roller or slider doesn't short out crossing the stock rails? and is their any problem with the rollers or sliders hanging up on the non continuous 3rd rail? If I was modeling in 3 rail I'd certainly be happy with that look but I'd also be happy with Gargraves or Fast trak look too, I love the Fast track that I use for my grandkids Thomas the tank set up, the working switch stands are very nice to operate.....DaveB

Will do, I'm almost ready to start the terminal area.  Will be UP steam era focused.  

First facility will be a standard Korber RH and an old Bowser TT.  Just want to get a few trains running.

Second facility will be a scratch built Cheyenne RH. A 34" Millhouse unit with the new UP TT arch will be used for the Big Boys.

The track in this thread will look nice over the floor pits in the RH.  Can't wait.

Dave,

  I believe shorting is avoided by killing return power on the 2 common rails between the points and the frog, either permanently or individually controlled by the throw switch.  The gaps shown at that angle are probably deceiving, being plenty close enough to keep regular sized pick up rollers from dropping.

Bruce

   Wow, that's about the best I've seen 3 rail track look. Being a 2 railer who's never built a 3 rail turnout I've got a couple of questions. First where do you put  the insulating gaps so the power pick up roller or slider doesn't short out crossing the stock rails?

The both closure rails on the turnout are powered, either positive or common.  The power is routed through the rotary switch which also controls the turnout.

and is their any problem with the rollers or sliders hanging up on the non continuous 3rd rail?

As you can probably tell the turnout is an Atlas 2 rail Code 148 that has a Code 100 third rail added.  I have ramped the 3rd rail so that the height nearest the closure rails is sufficient to allow the roller to cross without hanging up.

There are some there tweaks, but that's basically what is necessary.  I guess I should add that the Atlas 2 rail frog works fine with 3 rail wheels (which was necessary to even attempt the project).  The guard rails have been relocated to allow for 3 rail wheels.  There are some other tweaks, but that's basically it. 

I did modify the Atlas turnout using some suggestions mentioned in the OST publication Detailing Track.  The guard rails are much shorter than the stock Atlas rails, which includes the guide rails on the frog.

If I was modeling in 3 rail I'd certainly be happy with that look but I'd also be happy with Gargraves or Fast trak look too, I love the Fast track that I use for my grandkids Thomas the tank set up, the working switch stands are very nice to operate.....DaveB

__________________________________________________________________________

Nice photo, Howard. Is my ATSF/CNW influence spreading?

I suppose it is.  Those C&NW reefers were nice!  Also, after all your posts I have taken an interest in the C&NW, a very interesting road.  Jack Delano, one of my favorite photographers took an interest in the C&NW along with the AT&SF.

Bruce and Howard, Thanks for the explanation of the turnout conversion....DaveB

Here's the expected stack up...

The "fake" Dyna-mat that I'm testing for sound deadening is also Aluminum backed, so it should also act as a TMCC/Legacy ground plane.

The whole stack up will get ballasted down to the asphalt tape, which is 6" wide.

Thanks,

Mario

Mario,

Attaching the n scale rail is somewhat problematic. I've used spikes, glue and soldered to the tops of brads. I currently use all of these techniques. My next installation will be to cut a grove down the center of the rails to recess the n scale rail a little bit and make it easier to epoxy to the ties. The rollers on the locos and cars dip down enough for good contact.

I think one could also make the track dual rail for 3 foot ON3 and offset your o scale rollers left and right just a tiny bit. That would be cool.

Ron

I think you guys have too much time on your hands and should come to CA to help me work on the layout!  I'll provide the food and drinks, but then we'd never get anything done anyway.

Ron,

Through the generosity of Marker, he has given me some track to play with, and he has already ran a groove down the center of the ties, so I lucked out there!  I'm thinking that should be no reason not to have a solid conductor that runs through the track, roadbed and sub road bed, even if its just wire pulled taught and soldered to the bottom of the code 60 rail... I'll experiment with a few different things, including some solid and braided wire.  We shall see how it goes... Luckily, I have plenty of solder to choose from.

If there were a narrow gauge line in NY, in the timeframe that I model, then I would definitely go for it.  But, since they all died off by mid-century or so, I'm going to skip it.  The only "western" prototypes that I'm remotely interested in, would possibly be the Nickel Plate, which ran in western NY.

I'll provide the food and drinks, you can start with the airfare.  I bet I can Hudson-up your turntable!

Thanks!

- Mario

LOL, Actually "re-invest" would indicate I could make a profit by selling my 3 rail, which is seldom, making a profit.

I "re-invest" profits,certain losses are deduction on my income tax forms, stocks. I doubt I could deduct losses from my model railroad.

     "Through the generosity of Marker, he has given me some track to play with, and he has already ran a groove down the center of the ties . . ."

          Mario

I have been following these threads on building a better 3 rail track.  Thanks again to Marker and Ron H for their contributions.

I have acquired some used Atlas code 148 2 rail track and was planning on grooving the ties also.  I am not sure how to do this with flex track.   I'm pretty sure that a table saw would send ties and rail flying all over the workshop.   Marker, what's your secret?

Bob

That quote attributed to me did not look like my words.  I am going to deny it.  Here, apparently, is an accurate quote:

That is not true for folks with dozens of locomotives, of course.  They are stuck with center rails and transformers long after the rest of us convert to Rc and battery.

It is fairly easy to get quotes correct.  It is not polite to change the words and blame the originator.  Opinion.