Looking for advice or revisions to this. Still need to add the two spurs on the right.
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I really like the Ross Custom 4-Way switches that book-end the four track yard and its drive through look and function. It reminds me of the Baldwin Yard (at least that's what I call it) adjacent to US 301 west of Jacksonville, FL.
Do you want or need any way to reverse a train? If so you could add two switches and a little track and make a Wye between the left end of the inner track around the access hole and the track to the turntable.
Charlie
@Choo Choo Charlie posted:Do you want or need any way to reverse a train? If so you could add two switches and a little track and make a Wye between the left end of the inner track around the access hole and the track to the turntable.
Charlie
I suppose I just don't understand this post.
Isn't a turntable the ultimate in reversing a train. Please help me see what I'm missing.
Most turntables can turn around an engine and coal tender but not the whole train. The turned around engine can possibly go to back of the train and pull the train in the reverse direction. In earlier times this would place caboose next to the coal tender or place the passenger cars and rear car next to the coal tender.
My layout has a TT and four reversing loops, two for the inside loop and two for the outside loop and I just installed a Wye for the outside loop. I just like lots of options for reversing trains and changing trains routes which why it the layout has 31 switches on a semi small layout.
Charlie
@Choo Choo Charlie posted:Do you want or need any way to reverse a train? If so you could add two switches and a little track and make a Wye between the left end of the inner track around the access hole and the track to the turntable.
Charlie
I think this is a great idea, but not seeing where the wye would go? Can you give more detail?
Thanks!
@Choo Choo Charlie posted:Do you want or need any way to reverse a train? If so you could add two switches and a little track and make a Wye between the left end of the inner track around the access hole and the track to the turntable.
Charlie
The pink track spur which ends in the upper right corner could be continued via a curve and join the right hand straight portion immediately south of the very short spur. If that short spur will someday be longer, a crossing track could be laid now. John in Lansing, ILL
I usually don’t get involved in ones track planning. The area with the 4 way Ross turnouts. It doesn’t seem to justify the expense of these turnouts as to what you are capable of storing there. I’m guessing maybe after clearance issues. 20 cars max.
The area to the upper right doesn’t look to busy. Seeing you are using Ross track. I might look into using curved turnouts to get the yard started much sooner. It looks like it would end up being twice as long. Looks like you would need to move an industry. You could still keep it with a shorter spur.
@rattler21 posted:The pink track spur which ends in the upper right corner could be continued via a curve and join the right hand straight portion immediately south of the very short spur. If that short spur will someday be longer, a crossing track could be laid now. This will provide a reverse loop for the pink circuit. John in Lansing, ILL
Thanks for this! I will work on it.
@Dave_C posted:I usually don’t get involved in ones track planning. The area with the 4 way Ross turnouts. It doesn’t seem to justify the expense of these turnouts as to what you are capable of storing there. I’m guessing maybe after clearance issues. 20 cars max.
The area to the upper right doesn’t look to busy. Seeing you are using Ross track. I might look into using curved turnouts to get the yard started much sooner. It looks like it would end up being twice as long. Looks like you would need to move an industry. You could still keep it with a shorter spur.
So right now, the yard is about 110 inches, and assuming 15 inch car lengths, prob fit around 7 on each with no clearance issues. I think you're right though. I should extend the yard.
Would you curve it up and try to mirror the top pink/blue tracks or just go straight?
You've received useful advice about adding a reversing loop(s). Without reversing capability, the movement of trains around mere ovals soon gets monotonous. Further, reversing the direction of trains creates the illusion that train routes are longer than they seem; in effect, doubling the length of the path of a train. Carry on ...
Mike Mottler LCCA 12394
@Mike H Mottler posted:You've received useful advice about adding a reversing loop(s). Without reversing capability, the movement of trains around mere ovals soon gets monotonous. Further, reversing the direction of trains creates the illusion that train routes are longer than they seem; in effect, doubling the length of the path of a train. Carry on ...
Mike Mottler LCCA 12394
Thanks, Mike. I plan on using this advice to incorporate a reversing loop!
Ross makes a variety of curved turnouts. I would start right around where your industry is located. The fact that you are using Gargraves flex is a plus. You will be able to make a gradual bend following the mainline. Once you get beyond the turnouts the track radius will increase.
In this pic. It’s just a small area with some industries. By starting out on a curve. The spurs are plenty long.
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If you incorporate a reversing loop (usually a good idea if you have room), be sure to add a second one - there's no benefit to reversing a train if you can't reverse it again. The alternative is to re-reverse it by backing it through the reversing loop.
When I look at the OP’s layout, I see the opportunity to run it similar to a real railroad.
The turntable to turn the locomotive around.
The drive-through yard is the perfect location for a switcher to move the caboose to the other end of a freight train. You could build a full train out of that yard.
The long winding spur would look nice with a switcher slowly pushing a freight car or two to the factory at its end.
Mallard
You are correct on the advantage of two reversing loops and I have two pairs of them in an oval and figure 8 on one inside loop and a dog bone on the other.
When I recently installed a Wye I can reverse in one direction luckily from the inside loop of main board and the outside loop. But to reverse from the other direction through the Wye I have to back through the Wye which is not always pretty. I take this in stride as real trains must back through some Wye's too.
Picture of train going from inner loop on main board, through Wye to outside loop of other board (though 5 switches! ).
If I want to reverse in other direction, the train has to continue to the lower right past the Wye, and I then throw the two switches on the bottom of the Wye on the lower left. I then would have to back the train from the bottom right through the two bottom Wye switches to the outside loop at the bottom Left.
To make this Wye I had to add two switches, the one in the right side of the Wye and the one to the top of the Wye.
Picture of oval and figure 8 in the inside loop of main board.
Picture of dog bone reversing loops on control panel on right.
Charlie
@Choo Choo Charlie posted:Do you want or need any way to reverse a train? If so you could add two switches and a little track and make a Wye between the left end of the inner track around the access hole and the track to the turntable.
Charlie
But wouldn't you need 3 switches for that?
Greg,
Your plan picture is missing some key "reach" details (dimensions), so my main comment is that any engine that derails on a roundhouse lead track near the turntable looks like it will require a long reach over track and scenery to fix the problem. Big, heavy engines will make that reach just a bit harder.
And, here's a "something to think about" comment. Looks like you have quite a bit of space available, so, have you considered an around the wall layout? You could build it U-shaped or E-shaped, with reversing loops on the ends of the two longer E legs, and with your yard and engine terminal on the middle E leg. If you choose U-shape, your yard and engine terminal would go at the end of one leg with a nice reversing loop at the end of the other leg.
Just something to consider.
Chuck
baildas
Three switches are needed. I had two, the two on the bottom already in place as part of the outside loop in the second picture where the tools are. The third is a new switch at the top of triangle. Then I had to add a second switch to make the triangle and to replace the curve track of the outer loop that was in the way. The cattle corral had to be moved and made narrower to fit in its new location.
The picture below shows what I had to start with. The Wye will where the yellow and green cattle corral is next to the gray and orange Ice station.
Charlie
Much advice here. I'll throw in my 2 cents:
Island, or around the walls: Part of this depends on how / whether you want visitors to experience the layout. Visitors will not be interested in duck-unders to reach the center of an around-the-wall layout. As it is now, people can congregate around the edges.
Big oval or E-shape: The E-shape yields a longer run and makes it easy to include reverse loops (since your train is already reversing direction at the ends of the "E". But in a room this size, it will limit your max curvature. It becomes a question of whether you are more interested in "operations" (the number of things your train can do) or appearances (more realism through gentler curvature and longer straightaways).
Yard design: A yard should have a designated arrival / departure track. The departure track is where the train made up by the switch crew is placed so the road engine can couple up to it. The arrival track is where the train that has just entered the yard is left when the road engine goes off to be serviced, while the rest of the train is handed over to the switch crew to be broken up. This track needs to be long enough to hold the longest train you intend to run. In a small yard such as yours, one track will serve for both arrivals and departures. It also needs to be double-ended, so that, whichever direction the train is traveling, the engine is able to "escape" from the end of the track. In the yard you have drawn, if you made the top of the two purple tracks double-ended, you could use the bottom red track as the A/D. The locomotive would escape from either end of the red track, then back down the purple track to reach the switch to the turntable. The purple track would also serve as a "runaround" so your switch engine could get from one side of the yard to the other.
If you have your A/D track, and the purple "runaround" track next to it, double-ended, the rest of the yard doesn't really need to be. It is nice to be able to get at things from both ends sometimes, but if you are short on length, consider only having those two tracks double-ended, to get more storage space for cars. It will also save you money on switches.
I agree with others - make the yard longer! Yards are never long enough!
I am not sure what the pink connection to the turntable is for. Is it to change engines on the trains in the passenger station? If so, you need to change things so as to get the engine to/from the station with fewer changes in direction. The way you have it now, moving engines back and forth will get old real fast. It's just too fiddly. Try to get that crossover right at the train station throat, so the engine can go right to the turntable.
If the pink connection is not intended to serve the station, then I would just nix it. There is no other reason I can see why an engine would need to enter the terminal from that spot.
Reverse loops: Reversing direction can make things more interesting, but at a cost. The loop eats up space. It is also not realistic. Real railroads run trains in the same direction for hundreds of miles. Because you have a two-track main line, you already have bi-directional running, and do not need a reverse loop in order to achieve it. As long as trains on either main line can reach the yard, the train can terminate, and the engine can run in the opposite direction with a new train (or even the same one) if you like.
Wye: For all the same reasons you don't need reverse loops, you also don't need a wye. It is true loops and wyes give you more options. But do you need more options? Some people like to vary the route of the train... just because. Others want the train to "do something" and so build in the options which are conducive to the operations they want the train to do, and leave aside the other ones. Sometimes variety is the spice of life, and sometimes variety is just bewildering, and actually takes away from the fun. You will have to think about which camp you fall into on this one. Full disclosure: I am firmly in the second camp.
Double crossover: Make no mistake, these are cool as heck. But you really don't need this one. You need two single crossovers--one at each end of the yard. These will also create a passing siding, which you may want. You also want one more single crossover between the passenger station and the pink turntable connection.
Sidings: I see by the arrows that you are set up for right-hand running. But this means that your sidings you have planned in on the right side are all facing-point. That is, the engine enters first; you can't back the train in. A facing-point situation is difficult to switch--impossible unless you have a double-ended siding nearby. Consider making the sidings point in the opposite direction. Or else consider using left-hand running (like the Chicago and North Western).
Sorry I did not reply a second time to your turntable thread. I'm glad I saw this one. I hope this does not sound too pedantic! Really just trying to be helpful, and to explain myself. Enjoy your layout, however you build it!
@nickaix posted:Much advice here. I'll throw in my 2 cents:
Island, or around the walls: Part of this depends on how / whether you want visitors to experience the layout. Visitors will not be interested in duck-unders to reach the center of an around-the-wall layout. As it is now, people can congregate around the edges.
Big oval or E-shape: The E-shape yields a longer run and makes it easy to include reverse loops (since your train is already reversing direction at the ends of the "E". But in a room this size, it will limit your max curvature. It becomes a question of whether you are more interested in "operations" (the number of things your train can do) or appearances (more realism through gentler curvature and longer straightaways).
Yard design: A yard should have a designated arrival / departure track. The departure track is where the train made up by the switch crew is placed so the road engine can couple up to it. The arrival track is where the train that has just entered the yard is left when the road engine goes off to be serviced, while the rest of the train is handed over to the switch crew to be broken up. This track needs to be long enough to hold the longest train you intend to run. In a small yard such as yours, one track will serve for both arrivals and departures. It also needs to be double-ended, so that, whichever direction the train is traveling, the engine is able to "escape" from the end of the track. In the yard you have drawn, if you made the top of the two purple tracks double-ended, you could use the bottom red track as the A/D. The locomotive would escape from either end of the red track, then back down the purple track to reach the switch to the turntable. The purple track would also serve as a "runaround" so your switch engine could get from one side of the yard to the other.
If you have your A/D track, and the purple "runaround" track next to it, double-ended, the rest of the yard doesn't really need to be. It is nice to be able to get at things from both ends sometimes, but if you are short on length, consider only having those two tracks double-ended, to get more storage space for cars. It will also save you money on switches.
I agree with others - make the yard longer! Yards are never long enough!
I am not sure what the pink connection to the turntable is for. Is it to change engines on the trains in the passenger station? If so, you need to change things so as to get the engine to/from the station with fewer changes in direction. The way you have it now, moving engines back and forth will get old real fast. It's just too fiddly. Try to get that crossover right at the train station throat, so the engine can go right to the turntable.
If the pink connection is not intended to serve the station, then I would just nix it. There is no other reason I can see why an engine would need to enter the terminal from that spot.
Reverse loops: Reversing direction can make things more interesting, but at a cost. The loop eats up space. It is also not realistic. Real railroads run trains in the same direction for hundreds of miles. Because you have a two-track main line, you already have bi-directional running, and do not need a reverse loop in order to achieve it. As long as trains on either main line can reach the yard, the train can terminate, and the engine can run in the opposite direction with a new train (or even the same one) if you like.
Wye: For all the same reasons you don't need reverse loops, you also don't need a wye. It is true loops and wyes give you more options. But do you need more options? Some people like to vary the route of the train... just because. Others want the train to "do something" and so build in the options which are conducive to the operations they want the train to do, and leave aside the other ones. Sometimes variety is the spice of life, and sometimes variety is just bewildering, and actually takes away from the fun. You will have to think about which camp you fall into on this one. Full disclosure: I am firmly in the second camp.
Double crossover: Make no mistake, these are cool as heck. But you really don't need this one. You need two single crossovers--one at each end of the yard. These will also create a passing siding, which you may want. You also want one more single crossover between the passenger station and the pink turntable connection.
Sidings: I see by the arrows that you are set up for right-hand running. But this means that your sidings you have planned in on the right side are all facing-point. That is, the engine enters first; you can't back the train in. A facing-point situation is difficult to switch--impossible unless you have a double-ended siding nearby. Consider making the sidings point in the opposite direction. Or else consider using left-hand running (like the Chicago and North Western).
Sorry I did not reply a second time to your turntable thread. I'm glad I saw this one. I hope this does not sound too pedantic! Really just trying to be helpful, and to explain myself. Enjoy your layout, however you build it!
Thanks so much! This is such a big help and exactly the sort of info I have been looking for!
Good thread and . interesting views. If the layout has been revised, please post an update
If you are not using flex track for your curves check out Ross prices on their curve track vs Gargraves, Usually more pieces per 1/2 circle but I discovered it was cheaper still with O-84 curves anyway back about 6 months ago.
Can you give the overall size of your plan and the size of the mainline curves. Thanks.
Small note: The track pins. Ross v.s. Gargraves are slightly different, over time the Ross pins may loosen. IMO, Mike CT.
Gargraves left, Ross Right.
