Buses vs. Street Rail, Diesels vs. Steam

 

Actually, coal production has been dropping quite dramatically of the last 3 to 5 years. Both BNSF and UP have been hauling much less coal out of the Powder River Basin, do to MANY of the coal burning steam power plants converting over to natural gas. Using natural gas, the power plants do NOT have to go through all the "emission scrubbing" required for  burning coal.

There was no conspiracy that specifically led to the demise of streetcars unless you consider the onset of the private automobile technology was designed to be aimed specifically at streetcars which, of course, it wasn't.  It's cyclical transition by technology depending on whether you call it progress or not whether you look at the PRR electrification of the corridor backed by federal funds or the onset of state backed paving projects that doomed the interurbans.

What really doomed most interurbans was firstly, the Depression and secondly, was the fatal blow that the Supreme Court delivered that ruled that the generation of consumer electricity had to be separated from rail in any financial arrangement. The irony of this was at the same time, the electrification of rural U.S was in a boom period. The right of way for interurbans more often than not carried powerlines to consumers in scattered communities. One subsidised the other. Back in the day some called this monopolistic. I call it efficient. One company owned both services. What most folks don't realise is that the interurbans and local streetcar services were one company. Taking Indiana for example, The Interstate Public Service, the later Indiana RR and the Northern Indiana RR all supplied local streetcar services. There are many, many other examples. 

 

What is now called light rail was originally termed over in Europe "the limited tramway concept", meaning that streetcars were to be separated as much as possible from automobile traffic along with a coordinated design intended to blend both, which did not largely exist back in the day. Also, what was once rural in lacking a profitable passenger traffic base was in competition with private autos and jitneys, buses etc and now decades later what was rural is now urban

 

I suspect that natural gas will fuel the railroads and power plants sooner than later, in advance of automotive technology once the oil shale boom will eventually be used up. We have about 100 years of natural gas. Its all economics and the cost of fueling everything. The trend usually is that the ball starts rolling slowly then the economies of scale kick in. 

There definitely was a conspiracy to eliminate trolley and street car lines. From Wikipedia:

 

The General Motors streetcar conspiracy (also known as the Great American streetcar scandal) refers to allegations and convictions in relation to a program by General Motors (GM) and other companies who purchased and then dismantled streetcar and electric train systems in many American cities.

Between 1936 to 1950, National City Lines and Pacific City Lines—with investment from GM, Firestone Tire, Standard Oil of California, Phillips Petroleum, Mack Trucks, and the Federal Engineering Corporation—bought over 100 electric surface-traction systems in 45 cities including Baltimore, Newark, Los Angeles, New York City, Oakland and San Diego and converted them into bus operation. Several of the companies involved were convicted in 1949 of conspiracy to monopolize interstate commerce but were acquitted of conspiring to monopolize the ownership of these companies.

Some suggest that this program played a key role in the decline of public transit in cities across the United States; notably Edwin J. Quinby, who first drew attention to the program in 1946, and then Bradford C. Snell, an anti-trust attorney for the U.S. Senate whose controversial 1974 testimony to a United States Senate inquiry brought the issue to national awareness. Both Quinby and Snell argued that the deliberate destruction of streetcars was part of a larger strategy to push the United States into automobile dependency.Others say that independent economic factors brought about changes in the transit system, one writer going so far as to accuse Snell and others of falling into simplistic conspiracy theory thinking, bordering on paranoid delusions. Other acknowledged contributory causes include the Great Depression, the Public Utility Holding Company Act of 1935, labor unrest, market forces, rapidly increasing traffic congestion, urban sprawl, taxation policies that favored private vehicle ownership, and general enthusiasm for the automobile.

There is now generalagreement that this conspiracy was not the only reason for the decline in street cars in the USA. Wrote one author "Clearly, GM waged a war on electric traction. It was indeed an all out assault, but by no means the single reason for the failure of rapid transit. Also, it is just as clear that actions and inactions by government contributed significantly to the elimination of electric traction."

The movie Who Framed Roger Rabbit? portrays "The Red Car" (Pacific Electric) being taken over by Cloverleaf Industries "to dismantle it," as the ominous Judge (Christopher Lloyd) explains.

No, there wasn't. Even that super-reliable source Wikipedia you rely on states that the only conspiracy was to monopolize interstate commerce. That's WAY DIFFERENT.

FACT: Lines like the Pacific Electric were going to buses long before any alleged conspiracy. The mighty PE never made a dime, except during WWII. People were buying cars by the thousands--not because of any conspiracy, but because they enjoyed the independence.

 

By the way--Snell has been pretty well discredited:

 

http://www.baycrossings.com/Ar...etcar_conspiracy.htm

 

The simple truth that no one wants to admit is that "big bad companies" didn't do in the trolley--we did.

Another factor was the pre-existance of franchises to operate on city streets which the failing traction companies required and had.The change of ownership meant that the franchises now could be transferred to their former competitors, which in 99% of the cases, was a motor bus company that once they transitioned over... they ran not on a privately maintained steel right of way ( which meant snow removal, intermittent repairs and renewals on the public streets) but rather on municipally or state maintained roads at a no cost =substantial cost savings.

But even this fell apart as automobile numbers continued to rise, and they went through mergers, consolidations, route discontinuances, and lower frequency of runs until they were taken over by municipalities who had to pay for what the bus and interurban companies did at no cost to them as well as losing franchise fees.

By the time Armour acquired Greyhound, there was an acknowledgement from the top down, that Greyhound was a lemon. My uncle David was the man in charge stuck with too many unprofitable routes and rising costs. It gave him a migraine.

 So much for conspiracy theories.

smd4,

To each his own opinion. I strongly believe that there were conspiracies by GM, the tire companies and others with auto industry dependencies to eliminate trolley and street car lines in many cities.

If you rode a bus or a trolley, you had to pay a fare.  To use a car on pavement, you paid NOTHING per each use.  OK, there are gas taxes.  But outside our freight RR's, ALL OF OUR TRANSPOTATION SYSTEM IS SOCIALIST BASED!

What about cost of car, gas, taxes (on car, gas), tolls.  The federal government provided much of the initial funding on US highways and interstates. The states provide much of the maintenance and upkeep (with some federal support). It would be difficult to drive a car without roads. Just saying...

In terms of Socialism versus private enterprise that's directly related to the interurbans is an interesting piece of history. When two out of three Chicago interurbans could no longer compete ( which is a story onto itself) and were about to be abandoned, municipalities and even the Governor in the case of the CA&E wanted to save the road. However there was no legal basis to do so at that time. The CA&E held out because of the promise of a state or city takeover, running freight only until their motive equipment was red lined. The CTA had plans ready to run the line as far as Wheaton with reconfigured PCC's. The threat of socialism played a role in this as in the case of Speedrail, the former Wisconsin Milwaukee Electric. Promises of a takeover dragged on but again, there was no legal basis to do so. The kicker was that Milwaukee's Mayor was an avowed Socialist one of the only socialists to ever get elected. That didn't help. The CNS&M..again the CTA drew up plans for a takeover.Again, no legal basis. The commuter association ( believe it or not)  had raised enough money by private donations to lease the line, but the owner's claimed leasing the line would devalue it's assets. Funny though they planned to turn it over to scrap. How do you devalue scrap? Mayor Daley as a response to losing other commuter lines, pushed for the what is now the RTA, and so..what is the greater public good? The case history of Chicago is an interesting one. The postscript to the case of the CNS&M was the asking price of 27 million was the cost of adding an extra lane to a small section of I-94 that occurred afterward.We all know in Chicago that I-94 at rush hour is a mess to this day. What killed the CNS&M and the CA&E was the federally funded building of the Interstate. In the case of the CA&E, it's entry to the city was obliterated and in the case of the CNS&M it's traffic sank upon the completion of the limited access expressway. To this day, we lack any sort of planning for a balanced transportation system. And so it goes Whats interesting is the socialism of federally owned interstates versus the dread of the same toward rail. Two different directions at the same time.

Thanks for the education one of the most interesting topics I have read here lately. lets have some more train and trolley history, here in manchester,n.h. we at one time had quite the trolley system so I have been told..

What is also interesting is that a significant source of traffic for the Class One roads originated on the interurbans as innovations. Container traffic with demountable  containers on special flats, complete with with remotely operated overhead gantry loading dates to the Cincinnati and Lake Erie RR in 1930 in the depth of the depression. The Piggyback concept was originated by the CNS&M in the 20's.

 

The mechanical refrigerated express was pioneered by the same as well as the Northern Ohio and Lake Shore Electric which also pioneered what became a NS Class One service, the rail wagon system, using what were then called Bonner Wagons, rubber tired highway trailers with steel wheels in 1930. This look familiar?

 

 

I wish I had a scanner, I could provide more  pictures. If this is interesting I highly recommend an equally interesting book on this "lost history", the CERA's book "Not Only Passengers." I think Don would enjoy this one.

 

Lots of interesting comments, and bits of unknown (to me) history.  While I have read

the U.S. has years of supply of natural gas, that seems to (me) to be threatened by a

forced change from coal to gas to fuel powerplants, which could lead to another energy

crisis? upon that sooner exhaustion of what a lot of people are now heating their homes with, and THAT escalation of cost.  So....a future reversion back to coal, and business for the railroads when fracking has exhausted the gas supply?  I guess a

question would be how many years each of coal and gas are now estimated and when

and if railroads will be again rewarded with that coal business?  (I am not looking

forward to breaking up coal with a sledge and hauling it into the house as we did as kids  in the 1950's)

I doubt in the short term a crisis is looming as the transition in power plants, while pricey, is already underway and I suspect the pace will increase if transportation costs increase for coal, as a pipeline is all thats needed for gas. At this point it's impossible to predict a tipping point. If I remember correctly both gas and coal are at about a 100 year level. Even if I remembered correctly, these are only projections. Whats interesting to me that no one in the media remarks about is our huge reliance on plastics, which are also derived from oil. Where does that leave model trains?  Gadzooks. I doubt anytime soon we will have soda in bottles or cast iron trains, although I like both. As for light rail, some of the proposed routes equal those of the interurbans in mileage, although in Europe they carry freight, I doubt that will happen here. Shades of Socialism! Just kidding..