buy for re-sale

Dear L..I. Trains,

Avast ye! That's bloomin' Pirate talk if I ever heard. Parlayed comes from old French which means "to speak"

I'll swab the deck wit ye!

I'll keel haul ye!

I'll run ye through!

AAARGGHH!!!

DEAD eye Mike Maurice

Well, that's all of two. Maybe. But the definition of "holding its value" is an elusive one. Dennis is correct - you better know what you're doing, and even if you do, it's virtually impossible to predict what items will "hold their value." Pretty much everything will lose its value, in that almost no items will ever sell for more that what was originally paid for them. And with inflation, things would have to increase in price just to "hold their value."

I suspect that there will be large discounts on Big Boys after a few years, given that there will be a lot of them around, and an ever-decreasing number of people who would want to buy them.

Fair enough. I model On30, not 3-rail, so I'm totally unfamiliar with the values of any of that stuff. All I've been getting rid of were excess supplies and some structures that were good to start with.

That, for most people, is the only way it's a venture that justifies the investment of time required to make it work with a reasonable rate of return.

I am in it as a hobby not a business. Recently passed on a like-new  Lionel FM Trainmaster  that wa under priced. it was too big for my layout so I left it for someone else. It didn't last long.  I have had "good deals" but figure they balance all the others.

Where do you guys get off telling us how to support our hobby?  Like it or not, this is a COMPETITIVE hobby with a lot of COMPETITIVE people.  Some of you spend less than $500 a year which is fine.  Some of us spend thousands per year.  There is room for everyone.  Enough of the petty jealousies of people turning a buck...TINPLATE ENVY is not a desirable trait PEOPLES!  I know a lot of you are of the "no one should have more than anyone else"(gee wonder who gave you that idea), but if I drive 2 hours, spend a whole day at an auction, and turn a few trains to support my train addiction, then who the heck are you?  I work very hard at my job, but it does not fully support my train wants.  Also, I can make the case that I am making a lot of trains available to collectors out in Kansas, etc. where collectible trains may be fewer.  Sadly, people on here often are not tolerant of others' pursuits.

quote:

Sadly, people on here often are not tolerant of others' pursuits.

There are people who confuse J.L. Cowen and A.C. Gilbert with Santa Claus.

Good one Burf...sometimes I think we are one and the same...the only 2 collectors here?  And everyone tells us how to go about things.  That takes away from the reason I visit here...TO GET AWAY FROM THE NASTISITIES OF LIFE!

Ron, it's the classic issue with any hobby and how many people see it:

• Anyone less into it than you isn't really into it and not worth the time.
• Anyone more into it than you really needs to get a life.

But as for the, "I deserve what i can't afford," I don't get this. Communism doesn't work in real life, that's been proven time and again. But even if it did, it sure wouldn't apply to hobby stuff. yet, some people feel it's your duty to make things as cheap for them as possible (and then, a little cheaper than that).

At a show a few years ago where I was selling off my G scale stuff at bargain prices, I had to tell a couple of people, "maybe you should look for another less expensive hobby, or go to HO scale" as nothing in G scale is cheap. They wanted LGB at used Tyco prices and took serious issue with me not going along with that...

Buy low. Sell high. Lemme see...I think there is a name for that.

Oh yes...I remember! It's called CAPITALISM and it is a GOOD THING.

Those of you who are critical of people who engage in the "Buy low, sell high." process fundamentally don't "get it."

Amen!

Now I get it, just the opposite of investments!

Do it any way that you want. I have no problem with dealers-part time or full time. Glad they are out there so I know where to look. I was an industrial salesman for 40 years so I stayed away from selling in connection with my hobbies. It i the "buy high"  and sell low" that kills you.

Some shows I've been to, it's close enough to the same thing...

Stuff goes in and out of vogue all the time.

Ask any 'collector plate' collector or anyone into beanie babies...

Collector plates?

Was there ever a secondary market for them?

Back in the day, I was a regular at a weekly country style auction in the Capital district. Collector plates as well as any other items manufactured as collectors items generally did not do well.

The auction was attended by NYC antique dealers.

Rich beat me to it.  I was going to say it sounds like good ol' capitalism at work here.

.....

Dennis

Rich, nobody could say it better.  I have been wheeling and dealing all my life.  I have never gone into anything that is over my head.  My thing is real estate, cars, and trains.  We all hear people saying how much they wish they had something and have no money.  People, this is America and everyone has the same opportunity.  Get up every day and go to work and you can achieve anything you want. 

Back in the 80's and 90's I used to buy post war locomotives and part them out. I could double and triple my cost of the items I bought. I did it with scale Hudson's, F3's, trainmasters, etc. 

There were guys who hated my guts for doing it and would confront me at some meets saying I was ruining the hobby. I paid them no mind and kept buying and selling. To me they were only toys. 

If if you have a problem with what I did just read Rich Melvins post. 

Rich nailed it.  Wish some more in DC saw things this way.

David, they were jealous. They did not have the means or your talent to do so.  I know you told them the same thing I tell people like that.  If you have the know how, you deserve to score.   Thank you for sharing.

Interesting topic.

I too try to support my hobby by looking for items that can be resold at a higher price. Funny enough, I have had great success with limited run "S" gauge items offered by NETCA and have on order some "S" gauge cars from METCA. I look for limited runs that I think will appeal to a large audience.

I do this with some "O" gauge items as well by purchasing SELECT items from LOTS, LCCA, TTOS and other groups. If this offends some people it is unfortunate, but I can't be concerned.

Paul

quote:

Back in the 80's and 90's I used to buy post war locomotives and part them out. I could double and triple my cost of the items I bought. I did it with scale Hudson's, F3's, trainmasters, etc. 

 

There were guys who hated my guts for doing it and would confront me at some meets saying I was ruining the hobby. I paid them no mind and kept buying and selling. To me they were only toys. 

 

While I wouldn't do it, as far as I am concerned, you were providing a service to those who wanted an original part.
You weren't the only guy doing it either. Off the top of my head, I can think of two other people who were parting out trains. One guy put out a fairly thick catalog. (I wonder whether I kept one)

Yes, interesting topic.

Here's what I don't understand,

I see for sale items where the seller says "It's new, mint, still in the shipping box" and he's selling it for 1/2 of what he paid for it.  To me that means he's losing money from the get-go.

Why would anyone buy something new (and maybe at MSRP), then turn around and sell it for 1/2 price?  The only reason I can think of is the seller spent too much and now the bill is due, unless what he's saying isn't the whole truth.

quote:

I see for sale items where the seller says "It's new, mint, still in the shipping box" and he's selling it for 1/2 of what he paid for it.  To me that means he's losing money from the get-go.

While some people buy for resale, and some people buy trains as an investment, there are plenty who don't.  And those who do often buy things that they collect too.

There are any number of reasons why a person would sell their trains at a loss.

Maybe they need the money.

Maybe they need the space.

Maybe they are planning to relocate, and don't want to move the trains.
Maybe they are doing some "advance estate planning", and don't want to leave the stuff for their family to deal with.

There is one fellow I always make certain to visit a York. He is not a dealer, but he purchased a lot of current production stuff though out the Modern era, and never used or displayed them. He is now selling that stuff off at a fraction of what he paid. This time he had NOS Lionel GG-1's and NOS Lionel FM Trainmasters, among other items. Made me wish I could use them.

I know that a lot of people here don't understand why someone would buy something and not use it.
The answer is simple, those folks take pleasure in ownership.

Thanks CW

There's another reason I just thought of, one that I have experienced myself in another hobby.

We get caught up in the feeding-frenzy whenever new items come out and for whatever reason, feel the need to buy 1 (or 2) of each, trying to acquire the complete collection or series.  Maybe we think the manufacturer will offer these only once, or a small quantities, only to realize a few years down the road that they're still pumping them out.  All of a sudden you have a room full of stuff and no where to put it.

I have a hard time keeping things in the box, therefore anything I would try to resell later would be less than what I paid for it, unless it was so collectible that folks didn't care.

Most everyone here knows I'm in the same league as CW.  I collect (first), operate (second), service, repair, (third) and buy the value and resell it.  I've done this since day one, sometime back in circa '72.  I've gone thru several collections and have always done well.

I've posted many pictures of my Pennsy by Lionel collection and my operating accesories layout, also my service bench/work area.

I service for two local dealers and I am always on the lookout for good buys, whether it be for parts or to sell to the shop owners so they can in turn sell to the public.  I bought a heavily discounted Lionel medium/high end CSX set from the local Hobby Town.  I added a decent profit and sold it to the dealer that operates out of an Antique Mall/Flea Market near Kutztown.  He in turn sold it to a very pleased buyer the second Saturday he had it, and cleared $90.

Items for sale get a second look from me if they are in EXC or better condition or priced very low.

At a local flea market a couple had a table full of Marx, Scout Lionel and a Lionel Prewar set or two.  Nothing I could use pricewise but off to the side was a little rusted, Postwar, plastic trucked, whistle tender chassis.  I asked how much, the woman said five bucks, I said "sold".  That's the stuff I can always use.

For me, the hunt never ends, and there's some OGR Forumites that use the FS board that can attest to that.

This is a fun hobby, that I enjoy, and for me, it is mostly self sustaining.

Bob D.

I do this quite often. 95% of my stuff was purchased new.  Sometimes, I buy something, and don't like it after it arrives.  It didn't meet up to my expectations, or it fails to fit in to my most current scheme.  Or maybe I just want to make room for something newer.  Anyway, I check the current market for similar items for sale, and always price mine lower to help insure a sale.  Even this sometimes doesn't result in a sale, and I end up keeping the item.  

Unfortunately,  it seems the items I have for sale don't command high prices, and if I do sell them, it's always at a loss.

But, that said, I enjoyed the original hunt for the piece, enjoyed buying it, owning it (for a time), and had some enjoyment in the anticipation of possibly selling it.  

I know this won't make sense to many of the members reading and posting here, but,  it satisfies me, and that's my story.

Bob Severin

One more reason comes to mind: D-I-V-O-R-C-E.

Great stories so far>

I see "new, mint", etc. on the bay and the item is 30 years old. Really? Did they buy it and hold it that long just for this?  

I have bought for re-sale a couple of times. Years ago the Little Choo Choo Shop in Spencer was blowing out lots and lots of trains. I purchased quite a few trains them and sold on Ebay. The money I made on those paid for the trains I kept.

Last December I bought several items from the Lionel sale and flipped them on the Buy-Sell Forum and on Ebay and that paid for the items I kept. If my wife knows that more money is coming in than left she is a lot nicer about the trains I decide to keep.

Scott Smith

A bit paraphrased, but I could not agree more, although almost none of the stuff I buy is new. I enjoy buying, owning, holding (just to look at and understand its scale and dynamics) and then selling (some items). I also enjoy finding a neglected piece and making it run or work again. I need to learn more, but that gives me tremendous satisfaction. As such, I like post-war trains the most, but have a handful of newer items. Ironically, I like SCL, ACL and Southern (post-war railroads), but most items made with those road names are more modern. 

Many people would rather buy something used from a certified Lionel or MTH service tech that will stand behind what they sell.  That is much safer than to roll the dice on flebay.  Many do not follow this but do follow the price.  Good luck with that. 

quote:

I see "new, mint", etc. on the bay and the item is 30 years old. Really? Did they buy it and hold it that long just for this?

As has already been posted, sometimes the answer is yes.

But on EBay one has to be careful. Words like "new" and "mint" seem to have little meaning there. I cannot count the number of listings I've seen where the seller's title says "new" or "mint" but the body of the ad states that the item has been used, or the pictures indicate use.  Buyer beware.

      When I was 12 years old (72 now ), I raked leaves, mowed grass, shoveled snow etc. to earn  money.  My dad repaired trains for Wm. Becker & Nicholas Smith in Philadelphia, Pa.  At that time, the 'repair shop' was in our basement. We did not sell new or used trains. I was out w/ my mom one day, and we came across "The Bazarr of All Nations" store comprised of many 'little stores' selling all kinds of goods. One shop sold used Lionel, American Flyer and HO trains. The prices seemed really cheap, and I bought a box full of 'goodies' and took them home. My dad let me set up a card table in our repair section of the basement and I sold out in about a week. Naturally I went back for more. I was very proud that I was a "BUSINESS OWNER" at 12 years old.

   Dad built a 25 x 25 ' garage several years later, half was train store and repair. I was allotted an 8' x 8' area for my stuff.  At 15 years old, mom would now drive me to Phila.to a distributor called "Bernie Paul Dist.".  They sold all kinds of hobby items. I surprised Mr. Paul one year at a "Christmas open house" that they ran, offering special pricing and for one lucky person, an additional 25% off any order placed that day and paid for.  I was the lucky winner ( I still think the drawing was rigged because I was only a teenager and they thought I had no real money). Not so, I had that day $1000 in my moms pocketbook.  My salesman was "flabbergasted"!!  From that point on we bought, sold and traded anything to do w/ trains. I wanted more room, so pop said you can expand if you pay for the work. We had a neighbor remove the garage door and replace w/ a picture window, I painted the walls, put up wood shelving, a sheet linoleum floor and some used show cases.

We are still in business and celebrating our 75th year as family owned since 1939.

We bought out 18 stores in the 60's of all of their 'train' parts and related items. "Hill Cycle Shop" in Chestnut Hill was the biggest thrill .  Jerry Casalle was the owner and was in failing health. He was an old Lionel / AF repair shop and bought direct from Lionel. After years of getting cut back on his orders, Jerry doubled his order, thus expecting to receive close to what he actually wanted. That was the year Lionel shipped 100% of his order.  It arrived in one large box truck.  It ended up that Jerry's parents mortaged the property to pay for the shipment and Jerry's staff ended up dismantling many sets, locomotives etc. just to be able to walk around in their store and house.  The basement was 60' long, lined w/ parts cabinets, floor to ceiling on both sides.  I got the whole works in my purchase. I reassembled many F3, FM, GG1 etc. locos from the parts. No boxes, but the locos were "MINT". 

   Hope I did not bore you, I get carried away when writing about "TRAINS" or my "Lionel Lat Model Dirt Race Car". 

          Thank you for your patronage!!

           "  The Old Man"

Harry:  A great story, filled with a great personal history.  Glad to have been able to read it.

Bob Severin

Great, great story. Thanks for sharing, will see you on Nov 1st.

Art

There are TONS more reasons why somebody would sell an item for less than they paid originally.  CW listed quite a few.

Sometimes folks buy stuff for years in hopes of building that huge basement empire down the road.  But for some reason, it never materializes.  Life has a habit of upsetting the apple cart.  

Perhaps they joined a huge club or modular club, and no longer need a home-based layout.  Perhaps they bought a lot of conventional or TMCC equipment, and now they want the latest Legacy locomotives.  Or as in my case, my toy train interests have changed substantially toward Standard Gauge trains. I still buy new O-Gauge items from time to time, but not nearly as much as I did years ago.

The list goes on and on.  The one nice angle to this hobby is that there's any value at all that can be garnered from selling older items.  Not every hobby has that outlet.  In some little corners of the world, older stuff is viewed as junk with no inherent resale value.  And even when resale is possible in our little corner of the world, it's done in the shadow of the technology treadmill which exerts downward pressure on prices.  This is particularly true in the operator's culture we find ourselves in today (as opposed to the short-lived collector's culture of the 1980's), where importers continue to crank out new product in an  already-oversaturated market.  

So don't assume all sellers are looking to make a quick sale at fire-sale prices to pay impending bills, with daily price reductions on their for-sale listings until all items sell.  I've kept for-sale listings active for weeks -- or even months sometimes, because I take the view, "When it sells, it sells... and hopefully what I view as a fair win-win price.  And if an item doesn't sell, I'm more than happy to keep it in my roster rather than give it away.  After all, I bought the item in the first place because I liked it -- not because I planned to sell it.  

David