Buying from a magazine ad?

Probably now sporadically and infrequently, but it is not that I would not, it is that nothing interesting is offered.  I used to buy a lot of stuff out of a non train hobby magazine, and HO out of Modedl Railroader ads back before the net.

If I see something in a magazine ad that looks intriguing I confirm on the advertiser's website and order over the computer.  So I guess I buy from magazine ads, eh?

Pete

If I am going to purchase from other than my LHS, I use the web.  It's way too convenient just to go to a dealer's website and get "real time" pricing. Hate to say it but I rarely if ever look at the listings in magazines anymore.  I do use ads for information of the dealer, ph number, and web address but all the individual listings, no.

I have to agree with Texas Pete, I do the same thing. 

I actually purchased two things from magazine ads.  One was The O Gauge Hauler for storing and safely transporting my trains.  I saw the ad in the most recent edition of OGR Magazine.  The other item was a tool for putting together and taking apart O gauge track.  I can’t remember the item name or the company that I purchased it from, but I believe that I also saw it in OGR Magazine.

Kenjrtw  

Had not really given it much thought until you posed the question  -  I find I have gradually made a couple of major changes in my purchasing activity.  There was a time I did most of my shopping through magazine ads, but that has changed for two main reasons.  First, electronic media has made information much more accessible  -  this forum has been the greatest help to me with the forum sponsor listing and the for sale forum.  Additionally, I find myself using your website (as well as others) whenever I need item, pricing and shipping info.  I also take advantage of E-bay and Amazon.  Secondly, since my interest lies with toy (versus scale) trains, and conventional (versus electronic) operation,  I take advantage of retailers that offer products that fit my world, and are affordable  - this would be sites like OGR for sale forum,  e-bay, Menards, and (in the past) RMT.  Pretty much eliminates looking in a magazine for these items.

Steam Rules

"a country boy can survive!"     (Bocephus,  1981)

I guess I don't understand the question. Out of 101 ads in OGR, I only counted 8 advertisers that do not have a website. Except for those few, mail order is virtually dead. I might receive 1 or 2 mail orders per year, if any. Nevertheless, I still run ads in several magazines, directing customers to my website. Are you suggesting that magazine ads are irrelevant?

Yes, I do. As an aside, one of the highlights of the magazine for me  is reading all the ads.

DennisB posted:

I guess I don't understand the question. Out of 101 ads in OGR, I only counted 8 advertisers that do not have a website. Except for those few, mail order is virtually dead. I might receive 1 or 2 mail orders per year, if any. Nevertheless, I still run ads in several magazines, directing customers to my website. Are you suggesting that magazine ads are irrelevant?

 

 

And if it weren't for that, we would not have the printed copy of OGR magazine; or any other magazines, for that matter. I may be mistaken, but I believe that subscription dues alone are not sufficient to keep a magazine in business. Thank you, Dennis, and all the other advertisers for making magazine printed copies viable. 

Although online articles, pictures, etc., are very nice and I obviously read and look at them, I still prefer to read the printed magazine; especially OGR!

Alex

All the time. I don't buy actual trains due to the ads very often, but the ads are an excellent way to discover so many of the cottage industries that make great scenery materials and structures. Just off the top of my head, these are some of the suppliers that I discovered due to magazine ads and that I continue to use on a regular basis to this day....

Brennan's Model Railroading

Backdrop Warehouse

Stainless Unlimited

Model Building Services

JT's Mega-Steam

Glenn Snyder Display Systems

Scenic Express

and I'm sure there are probably 5 or 6 more, but those are just off the top of my head.

The ads are a GREAT resource for people who are new to the hobby. I know first hand that those ads helped me A LOT when I first got started.

Thanks,

Eric Siegel

I like the magazine ad's because they give exposure to vendors that I may not be aware of.

Mikey

OK....since the question has been asked and of course you all know that I am likely interested in the response.....let me put my two cents in.  First, you will assume that I am going to be prejudice and you are going to be right....but perhaps for the wrong reasons as it may seem it has all to do with job security...not so!!   But let me say that I am one of those that does look over all of the ads within the magazine and to this day still finds something to purchase from those ads....been doing this for well over 35 years!....and yes, I use the internet too!!

It is no secret that the world wide web has changed the way all of us do business....and I mean ALL of us.  The web certainly allows businesses to expose their product offerings to a world audience and at first glance appears to be a better and more economical way to advertise.  It is true that it costs much less to produce an ad online but there are plenty of reasons why print advertising and magazine advertising is still viable today.  One of the main reasons is because magazine advertising is directly exposing your message in a format that folks actually pay to see.  These folks usually are the ones that have a direct interest....usually the core group that has the discretionary income to make the major purchases.  As a business, one can look at the subscribers as the potential customers that are willing to pay to see not only the articles in the magazine but the ads as well.  This is particularly true in the more specialty publications such as those in our hobby.  Potential customers are much more likely to act upon an advertisement if they feel they have made an investment in that ad through the cost of a subscription.  They are more likely to take the time to at least look at the advertisements since they "paid" for them.  Just think about the folks all across this country that can't wait to get their inserts which advertise the specials at the food markets....many folks only buying that particular newspaper that has those inserts (ads) in order to take advantage of what the grocery stores have to offer.

This brings to mind another reason why print advertising is important...and especially important to our hobby.  Our hobby is made up of a generation of folks that for the most part demand a print edition of the magazine.  While there are online only hobby publications, most ( notice I said "most" not "all" ) of those publications have not been particularly profitable for a variety of reasons,  not the least of which it is very difficult to justify pricing of advertising at a rate that can support the kind of staff a magazine needs for the kinds of articles the readers expect.  So...I can almost assure you that if the magazine advertising goes, so will the other venues a magazine provides its subscribers.  I will use this forum as an example.....

Several years ago....this forum was costing OGR a healthy sum to provide.  The bandwidth, the maintenance, software, providers, etc...the list goes on....was costing enough that it was becoming a business "question"...if you know what I mean.  This is why we decided to offer online / print opportunities because we understood that print and web marketing go hand in hand.  While print may be limited to a certain extent, online digital advertising through a well known print magazine like OGR needed the print revenue so that we could offer the forum advertising at a realistic price in today's market thus hoping to assure the survival of both.  This has proven to be an effective combination thanks to both the sponsor's and readership/forum membership's response.  

So....I would say that to use print advertising to the best advantage in the eyes of both the readership and as an advertiser is to drive folks to your website with some great deals they see in print!!  I know many of you tell me on a daily basis that you enjoy the print version of the magazine and enjoy both the articles and the ads.....and I will say on behalf of the OGR team we are very thankful for all of you!!!

All the Best,

Alan 

I don't browse the internet.    I do read/browse magazines.    And if I see an ad that tweaks my interest, I go to the website for more information.   Printed ads are often limited in what they can economically display.    I have a general practice of not ordering on line.    If I want to order, I call the vendor/dealer direct.    If I can't do that, I don't buy.

I worked on computers most of my career, and one thing I learned very well, is that they are NOT secure.    And I know mine is not secure, regardless of what you say about yours.   So even if yours is secure, I have serious doubts about mine.    

Everyone has hangups, and that is one of mine.

Hello,

I agree with Eric Siegel and Alan "The Adman".

Being an old timer, I find it easier to read the printed magazine than the digital version although I do use the internet to purchase what I have found in the magazine,

The things that I buy from print ads are smaller items from smaller suppliers, (generally with smaller ads,) because flipping through a magazine that focuses on my interests is to me more effective than web searches, especially when I don't really know what I am looking for! I don't pay much attention to the multi-page dealer ads because I don't really have all the 6-xxxxx numbers memorized, and if I know what I want their web page is better for detail and up-to-date availability info. I look at manufacturers ads for new releases. Of course, time spent browsing a focused magazine often exposes me to something new (to me at least.)

I haven't placed a phone order in years. If my LHS has it I patronize him in most cases, otherwise it is generally on-line shopping for me. Only when something I really want is not available from either the LHS or on-line will I place a phone order.

I regularly read almost all of the magazine ads. Some have resulted in either direct phone orders or indirect purchases through the advertising vendor's websites. I have also discovered many new vendors and their websites and news letters from magazine ads. Ones that I might not have found otherwise. I also enjoy just looking at the ads to see what's available from other vendors and I even skim through and read some of the small classified ads of interest.

I try to support my LHS as much as I can, but they are a small shop. Many times the larger vendors that advertise in the magazines have items that my LHS can no longer get or just do not carry. Thanks to the magazine ads, I have found and purchased several items this way, items I probably would not have known about otherwise.

Personally, I think the magazine ads are a great source of information.

I try to spread my modest train budget amongst the forum advertisers.  I do like the print ads for the smaller mom and pop stores selling very specialized items like shelf systems, smoke fluid, etc.

"Buying from a OGR magazine add."

I go over the sales advertisements in the OGR magazine multiple times just about every issue. When  I see a item that I am interested in  I call the vendor to make sure it's in stock. I have found a few time it was not.

I also shop  the sponsors web sites. Over the years I have dealt with a few that are my favorites now.

Favorites are not always the cheapest. But, the service, trust and  professionalism is worth a extra 5 to 10 % in my opinion.

Personally I like the magazine adds and phone call. Just me and my age I guess.

Larry

I certainly scan sale ads in magazines when I read them and like others, usually go to the website to order it if I find something that sparks an interest.

I will add though, though it's probably a small number now, I'm sure there are a good many older (and maybe younger for that matter) hobbyists that don't have a computer or a smart phone to look at online ads.  Obviously they wouldn't be on this forum in that case.  I know my grandfather is one of them, and he has ordered things through mail order at Train World in the past, but I'm sure it was through a magazine ad.

Last year I bought the MTH RK CSX switcher from your add in the OGR because of the great deal!

I don't need any more. I don't need any more. I don't need any more. I don't need any more. I don't need any more. I don't need any more.

Whoa! That's cheap. Ok, one more.

At one time (10 - 15 years ago) I ordered a lot of stuff though magazine ads.  However, with the advent of websites (especially those with real time inventory), and the fact that ads are probably 30 - 60 days old when they reach reader's hands, I don't do this anymore.  I see value in magazine items for items that are routinely kept in stock, but for one off items, not so much value.

Jim

I would suggest that print ads aren't necessarily a waste of ad dollars today.  But rather the more appropriate question might be, "What comprises the IDEAL print ad nowadays?"

I was always amazed at full-page ads by some of the big dealers or even MULTI-PAGE ads, where the ads essentially consisted of "small-print inventory" that readers often needed a magnifying glass to read.    Do people REALLY read ads like that today?

What are dealers attempting to do with ads like that?   Are they attempting to provide a service to readers by listing items available for sale?  And if so, what is the likelihood those items are even in-stock by the time the magazine is printed (and more importantly, read)?  Or are these dealers just "filling ad real-estate" with the hopes of building their brand (i.e., name recognition) month after month in an all-out slug-fest of "he who has the largest number of ad-pages must be the largest dealer from which to buy"?

It amazes me that in 2016, some toy train dealers STILL have the same-style print-ad that they had 20-30 years ago!!!    Those "inventory list" ads might have been appropriate back in the day when the collector mentality was prospering.  But I question whether anybody takes the time to even read through those lists in print nowadays.

Sometimes less really is better.  Do folks remember the print ads by Madison Hardware?  If I recall correctly, their ad was never more than 1/3 page in size... usually spanned the entire page-width, and often listed the SAME STUFF over and over again.  Nicholas Smith Trains had -- and still has -- a similar technique.  Those stores SURELY had/have TONS more stuff.  But they were/are content to simply get their name out in front of readers every month -- presumably so we wouldn't forget who they were/are. 

Bottom line... as long as there is print media and folks are actually reading that media, there will be a reason to have print-ads.  The real question becomes more about how to best keep one's NAME in front of the readership -- not whether there should (or shouldn't) be a print ad in the first place.

David

If it were not for ads in OGR, my business would only have exposure at York, PA and Springfield, Mass.  The forum gives me a year round venue to share my product.  I thank the staff, forum members, and clients who have supported Ogre Modeling, llc.  Thank you all and by all means check out the website and I look forward to meeting you.

rick

Rocky Mountaineer posted:

I would suggest that print ads aren't necessarily a waste of ad dollars today.  But rather the more appropriate question might be, "What comprises the IDEAL print ad nowadays?"

I was always amazed at full-page ads by some of the big dealers or even MULTI-PAGE ads, where the ads essentially consisted of "small-print inventory" that readers often needed a magnifying glass to read.    Do people REALLY read ads like that today?

David

David

I think you said it better than I did.  While an ad with store info, maybe an upcoming special or what have you is what usually catches my eye but the list of inventory I think is outdated because of the reasons you give.  Having an ad with all the pertinent info such as phone #, web address, email etc along with some basic information to me seems the way to go.

Since ad copy is generated well before the publication/distribution date dealers are often out of stock of the desired item by the time see the item in the ad listing.... however, I still like reading ads in conjunction with viewing the websites 

I enjoy reading the ads just for the pure pleasure of seeing how much each advertiser wants for certain items.  Sometimes they are close and other times it is way off.  I did get to find a few great deals in the ads but most of the time it is for availability and price reference.

I find it very odd that so far I have seen ZERO complaints about the ads. People either find them enjoyable or don't look at them, but they don't seethe and rage against them.

This is a total departure from the model airplane world, where everyone seems to COMPLAIN about the ads. People buy model airplane magazines for the express purpose of counting up how many pages of ads there are and posting a vitriolic rant on a forum somewhere. One ad is one ad too many for the vast majority, it seems.

I may be an oddball but i read every thing in the magazine . I read all the ads , and look at all the inventory line by line , i have even gone through the dealers list and gone onto every one of there web sites .I found many items that i never knew about and bought , also if you read the inventory , you get a better idea of   current market prices. In fact i scour all the ads several times before i even read the article , coupled with the forum you have a treasure trove of info .Life is a constant learning experience,and with an open mind a dog can learn new tricks. Just my opinion Techman   

Just last night at my local Barnes & Noble, I purchased a copy of The Railway Magazine, a UK publication, primarily for the ads. As a follower of the British scene, magazine advertising is the principal method by which I stay up to date with the latest merchandise releases and announcements. I then order accordingly based upon what I see and like so, yes, I still order from magazine ads.

Bob

Like Techman (see above) I use print to find out what is available...and where, and for how much.  New products, reviews, etc. are much easier to find and read in print.  Certainly you can google things, but you may not even know they exist or are available.  When I see something I want, then I may use the net to actually place the order (if the seller uses paypal).   For collectibles I use the net.  A quick check of a couple of sites usually brings up what I'm looking for and a price range.  Few brick and mortar shops advertise their stock  (other than from the latest catalogs) in print.  For those that do (Gryzboski) (SP?), etc., I read their ads in detail.  Trainz is an excellent example.  I wouldn't know they existed if I hadn't seen their print ads. Now I check their website regularly.

          Logan

I have bought many items from magazine ads and was never sorry

Bob C.

Rocky Mountaineer posted:

I would suggest that print ads aren't necessarily a waste of ad dollars today.  But rather the more appropriate question might be, "What comprises the IDEAL print ad nowadays?"

I was always amazed at full-page ads by some of the big dealers or even MULTI-PAGE ads, where the ads essentially consisted of "small-print inventory" that readers often needed a magnifying glass to read.    Do people REALLY read ads like that today?

What are dealers attempting to do with ads like that?   Are they attempting to provide a service to readers by listing items available for sale?  And if so, what is the likelihood those items are even in-stock by the time the magazine is printed (and more importantly, read)?  Or are these dealers just "filling ad real-estate" with the hopes of building their brand (i.e., name recognition) month after month in an all-out slug-fest of "he who has the largest number of ad-pages must be the largest dealer from which to buy"?

It amazes me that in 2016, some toy train dealers STILL have the same-style print-ad that they had 20-30 years ago!!!    Those "inventory list" ads might have been appropriate back in the day when the collector mentality was prospering.  But I question whether anybody takes the time to even read through those lists in print nowadays.

Sometimes less really is better.  Do folks remember the print ads by Madison Hardware?  If I recall correctly, their ad was never more than 1/3 page in size... usually spanned the entire page-width, and often listed the SAME STUFF over and over again.  Nicholas Smith Trains had -- and still has -- a similar technique.  Those stores SURELY had/have TONS more stuff.  But they were/are content to simply get their name out in front of readers every month -- presumably so we wouldn't forget who they were/are. 

Bottom line... as long as there is print media and folks are actually reading that media, there will be a reason to have print-ads.  The real question becomes more about how to best keep one's NAME in front of the readership -- not whether there should (or shouldn't) be a print ad in the first place.

David

You make some very good points here and I certainly agree with them. I hadn't considered these points in my earlier post. While I do like to look at the ads as I said in my earlier post, I will make an exception to that here and I just might skim or possibly even skip something in fine print that I have trouble reading or need to go find a magnifying glass to see. The vendor may be able to fit many more items into their ads in a smaller space, but that doesn't do much good if the main age group they are catering to can't read the ads.

I also like pictures, even if they are small, at least that gives you an idea of what something looks like to go along with the print.

Rocky Mountaineer posted:

 

I was always amazed at full-page ads by some of the big dealers or even MULTI-PAGE ads, where the ads essentially consisted of "small-print inventory" that readers often needed a magnifying glass to read.    Do people REALLY read ads like that today?

 

Nope-

Back in the day, those ads were extremely important. Before the Internet, before AT&T was broken up, long distance calls were a big deal. Those ads used to let customers do comparison price shopping without making expensive phone calls. All the hobby magazines for any hobby you can think of had pages and pages like that. Sometimes, to get the published price, you had to tell the seller where you saw it, so he would know which ad you were looking at. For mail order, a lot of times you would send your order to Joe Schmid Trains, Department Q. Well, there was no Department Q, that was a code to tell the seller which magazine you were ordering from!

All obsolete today.

I have on several occasions followed up with and purchased from a retailer who had an ad in OGR Magazine.  IT / technology has been my entire career, and I am very comfortable working online.  However (maybe it's the little kid in me who used to read catalogs at night with a flashlight) I do enjoy reading the print ads to learn about what people have developed, and have actually followed up with some of them when I was in their area while traveling.   My major turnoff - as others have mentioned - is a magazine ad listing scores of items in an incredibly small font size.

Matt Kirsch posted:

I find it very odd that so far I have seen ZERO complaints about the ads. People either find them enjoyable or don't look at them, but they don't seethe and rage against them.

This is a total departure from the model airplane world, where everyone seems to COMPLAIN about the ads. People buy model airplane magazines for the express purpose of counting up how many pages of ads there are and posting a vitriolic rant on a forum somewhere. One ad is one ad too many for the vast majority, it seems.

Someone should explain to them that without the ads there would be no magazine, resulting in no articles to read about model airplanes. They should be thanking the advertisers instead of complaining.

I'm a little late to this thread (I've been finishing up our new video, Great Layout Adventures 12) but I'll throw my 2 cents in now.

Whenever you talk about ads - print or digital - you have to understand your target audience. If you were advertising toys or gadgets for the 18-24 year old crowd, then print might not be the best way to reach them. However, for a model train audience, print is still a VERY strong method to reach this audience. Why? Two words - age demographics.

The age demographics of the people who participate in this forum break out like this:

I'll bet that many of you will look at those stats and say, "See! The hobby is dying! Look at how those stats are skewed to OLD people!"  But you would be wrong.

Think about where people are in their personal, business and family lives in those various age groups. If you are in your 20s, 30s and 40s, you are raising a family, working hard to further your career and are probably spending almost all the money you make supporting your family.

But what happens when you hit your 50s and beyond? The kids are grown up and probably married. The aren't living with you and you aren't supporting them any more. But your income is probably higher than it has ever been as you progress forward in your career. You now have money to spend on a hobby! That group of people 45 years old and up is the target audience for model train products.

Most of that target audience did not grow up with the internet. The internet came on the scene when they were well into adulthood. For them, there is a certain unique pleasure of sitting down in a favorite easy chair to read a magazine. I'm in that group and I'm fairly tech-savvy. I use a computer every day. I maintain the OGR web site. I know html, php and other technical languages of the internet. I use Photoshop almost every day. I shoot and edit our OGR videos using Final Cut Pro on a Mac. In other words, for an "old guy" (I'm 69 years old)  I'm fairly well versed in technical things and I enjoy using them. Yet I find that sitting in my favorite easy chair and reading a paper magazine is a much more enjoyable activity than scrolling pages on a computer screen. I know I'm not alone in this preference.

Obviously I'm prejudiced on this issue, and I recognize that. But bias and prejudice aside, the fact remains that for the model train target audience, print ads are critically important to the success of the business doing the advertising. 

I'm still in my twenties at heart. I don't care what the stats say. I have a lot of trains to catch.

I have always maintained that age is a state of mind, not a number. I'm with ya, Joe!

Sure, when it (the ad) catches my eye. Except for DaBay, I'm essentially a "paper buyer" - the printed word and image carries weight with me in a way that the electronic versions never will. It allows me a pleasant pondering experience; sitting in front of this computer is something that I can't stand for much more than an hour per day (computers are tedious), on a typical day.

As a related aside, when a new "major" catalogue comes out, I'm right there online to look at it with everyone else (I'm not a Luddite, after all). I will do this 2, rarely 3, times. After that, I wait until the paper copy arrives to actually enjoy perusing, considering and occasionally ordering an item or items.

I look at the website, but I spend my money on the paper representations.

in fact, I'm signing off now; been here long enough (an hour, give or take) to get twitchy.