Cab-1 remote not responding to base

So it used to work and now doesn't? As for tuning, although I don't know much about the CAB1, you would only need one side to tune to the other I would think. That sounds pretty far off to not work at all. A tuning issue would probably be iffy, not dead. So something pretty basic has happened to the CAB since another CAB works. Most likely the output fet or transistor.

First off, do you have another CAB1 to see if it's the remote or the base that has the issue?  When you rotate the knob on the CAB1, does the green light blink on the base?

John,

It’s the remote as nothing happens on the base or the tpc. I will try another cab-1 and watch the base green light.

Ted

I don't think that's a test for the base. The base runs the TPC. A test for the base was when you tried another CAB1 and everything worked. I think you said that in your first post.

Check to make sure that the cab 1 and the base are on the same frequency.

A few side issues, so that in the future some poor soul does get confused.

- The Cab1 transmits to the Command Base, and there is no reverse communication. (The Command Base transmits to the track, and for at least TMCC, nothing replies).

- It is the red LED on the Command Base that blinks. The green is on when power is on. (Same for the next gen blue Base1L). I just tested both to make sure.

Correct Michael, I had the colors backwards, just actually looked at a TMCC command base.

@illinoiscentral posted:

The Cab1 transmits to the Command Base, and there is no reverse communication. (The Command Base transmits to the track, and for at least TMCC, nothing replies).

TMCC & Legacy are a one-way broadcast the locomotive never sends anything back directly.  The only way to get info from the locomotive is with the LCS system and the IR sensor tracks.

John Will,

You actually made a mistake with green and red? Lol!
So, I did test it again and the red light blinks with a good cab-1 and nothing happens with the suspected bad one.

Someone suggested to make the crystals match up, they do. I swapped out the cab-1 crystal from another cab-1 that has become a parts candidate. I do have a few sets of alternate frequency crystals from the TMCC demo days when Chuck Hiram from Lionel gave me a few sets.

So, going to reopen this cab-1, clean the button contacts as most buttons beep but some do not.

If you get no response from the bad one, try the crystal from the good one.

I've used this on a few keypads, works like a champ.  KeyPad-Fix at Amazon.

John,

I posted above that I have a cab-1 that is no good and use it for parts and did swap out the cab-1 crystal.
I will have to get that keypad fix product.
Regards, Ted

I have a hard time believing every single button is not good, especially when Ted said the Cab-1 one beeps when a key is pressed. The problem is somewhere between the microprocessor and the antenna.

I didn't say that was the problem, Ted mentioned fixing the buttons, so I posted the solution that has worked for me.  Obviously, he still has to address the root cause of it not communicating  I'd probably recommend getting it talking first, no sense in fixing buttons on a dead remote.

I found this site that contains a lot of info and "home made" schematic of the CAB1. Maybe @gunrunnerjohn or some other forum member could give you some more ideas based on looking at this site

http://www.trainfacts.com/trainfacts/?p=268

I have the CAB1 and BASE1 schematics, but without actually diagnosing the physical problem, there's no way of knowing what is happening.  As far as explaining the operation, Dale did a far better job than I probably would, he went into considerable detail.

FWIW, this once happened to my original 1995 Cab-1, and the problem wasn’t the crystal, but rather a bad solder joint on the crystal’s socket (trace on the back side of the PCB, as I recall).

Richard,

I am going to open it and check the traces there with a meter.  Just another potential issue to look at.

Ted, there comes a point of diminishing returns, maybe it's time to upgrade to the newer Lionel BASE1L/CAB1L and leave broken antennas and weak track signals behind.

John,

I have Legacy already but use the Cab-1 every so often.

@Ted Bertiger posted:

but use the Cab-1 every so often.

Not anymore!

Hey Ted, Time to upgrade. Cab 2 is the way to go. LOL

Jim D.

If you read through my replies, I have 2 legacy systems.

I do have 5 cab-1s that work fine and 2 more that do not operate. I am not getting the cab1L when I have the legacy and can still operate a cab-1.

Been trying to figure what is wrong this one cab-1 as it did work and then it stop responding. It will end up as parts.

So... give you an update on the cab-1. I just bought an original one in the white box and from what I see inside of it, the crystal socket is a white socket that hold the crystal. When I went to try it out, it would not respond to the base. All buttons work, just no base response.
First thing I did was look at the crystal socket as it is different with no plastic shelf underneath to keep it firmly in place. I bent the 2 pins slightly downward so they make contact with the metal tabs inside the socket. Works as if it was brand new which it is, just 25 years later, this cab-1 runs my trains!

I have another original cab-1 in the white box and when I opened it, the crystal socket is gray with a small shelf underneath so the crystal stays firmly in place.
I would think Lionel saw an issue there and replaced the original ones that had a white socket with a gray one and had an extra piece to hold the crystal in place.
This gets me thinking that the cab-1 that will not respond to the base could be not a broken trace but the crystal itself is not touching the metal tabs. Going to re-open that problematic one, bend the pins down a little and try it again.
P.S. I am not abandoning my cab-1s as they have been reliable now for 25 years but I do use a cab-2!!

So I tried out the other cab-1 that does not work correctly but responds to the base as all keys work and it can operate an engine, etc. The underlying problem with this one is the red knob that does not work. Going to check the solder joints on both ends.
Any input from someone who knows what else I should look for?

If you need a parts CAB1, drop me a line.  You can steal the red knob encoder off the one I have.

John,

So I was able to get this cab-1 red dial to work slightly as an engine would start off but that was it. With some heavy pressure on the knob, I was able to almost stop this engine. There is something obviously not sitting right with the 4 encoders. They are in there right, the small wheel is there with 1 set of encoder almost against it with the other set sitting a little farther. Can’t come to a conclusion.
Just might shelve both of them and as you said, they will become parts cab-1s.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

If you get no response from the bad one, try the crystal from the good one.

I've used this on a few keypads, works like a champ.  KeyPad-Fix at Amazon.

John,

I ordered this today from the bay for $5.99 plus shipping/tax. Do you put this on the rubber keypad or directly on the circuit board? I know you need to let it dry before using. I will be getting this in about a week.
Thanks, Ted

It goes on the rubber keypad, that's the conductive material to make the contact with the PCB.  You'll see the black nubs on the keypad, you just coat them with this and let it dry overnight.

I have the exact same symptoms with a CAB1 that was working fine, and suddenly stopped communicating with the TMCC base unit.  I'll have to open it up and check the "socket" connection. 

I have two CAB-1s that both do the same thing.  My layout is in an unheated garage (in California).  As the weather gets colder, the CAB-1s start working more and more poorly, until when they get down to about 60 degrees F they don't function at all.  If I leave them inside the house, so that they stay above about 65 degrees F, they work fine.

Consider the possibility that it's the base tuning drifting with temperature, that's one common element.  It's possible to "tune" the base coil to possibly help or even totally fix that issue.

I have 2 temporary loops set up in the garage with Legacy and TMCC bases. Neither remote has an issue with the cold weather.
I have about 5 other cab1s boxed in the garage and they perform fine if I try them out. It is definitely colder than 60 degrees in my garage.