Calls raised for controls on trains bearing crude, Pittsburgh Post Gazette Jan. 22/14

Why now all of the derailments?  And why does the vast majority seem to be oil tankers?  Hmmm...

"Oil-bomb" trains.  Great, are our O gauge tank cars in danger of being considered representations of weapons like toy guns?   (Sarcastic, but thought-provoking.)

Aaron

Lets not forget about the 200,000 gallons spilled in Arkansas this year from a pipeline rupture.

And the 800,000 gallons spilled in Michigan 3 years ago, also from a pipeline.

I found it interesting that the caption under the photo listed it as a "boxcar". Poor media types don't know a boxcar from a hopper car!

 

By no means do I know a lot about all this, but have been reading about oil by rail and you are right, the pipelines have a far worse record for spills than the railroads. There are also many more trains hauling oil now, that number is still on the rise. Rail provides much more flexibility than a pipeline for the oil companies, as to where the oil is shipped. Good times for the rail roads.

 

Most crude oil is not that flammable. The Bakken oil is turning out to be quite flammable. Not sure the railroads knew about this until the terrible accident in Canada last summer, sounds like the oil companies hadn't told them?

 

Supposedly, there are some design flaws with the current tank cars and there is supposed to be a better, safer design for them.  Cost and who pays (rail roads or oil companies) will probably be an up coming discussion, if not already in the works.

 

In the Canadian accident, having only 1 person operating an entire train and then leaving it un-attended over night just doesn't make sense to me. I know little about the railroads, but do know they have lots of safety rules. This just doesn't seem right?

You missed one  Yellowstone River oil spill

And..about jobs created for a pipeline, one would think most of them are temporary,

while the railroad workers have steady employment hauling the stuff.

I'm with the current administration, We don't need no stinking pipeline!

 

Ed

 

People want to drive their cars, heat their homes, drink their Lattes, and they don't want us to have any fuel to do all this!    It is a lot of NIMBY.    (Not in my back yard).   vinyl is fine, but don't use petroleum to make it either for fuel or components, and also don't use leather because it is mean to cows, and don't use wool because it is mean to sheep!    We are all supposed to run around nude and eat grass, or wait maybe that is mean to grass!

What i cannot believe is the idea that the oil trains should avoid "populated and sensitive areas" ie-- no train should be anywhere near a town? How in the heck do you do that when the railroads were, are, and in the future built to CONNECT towns and cities????????.

Readers must remember that railroads are a legal state unto themselves. That is just

the way it is and perhaps always will be.

 

 

Say WHAT?  

 

Railroads are "...a legal state unto themselves...?"

 

Where in the world did you come up with that?

NTSB responds to current oil shipment safety issue.    Pittburgh Post Gazette, front page Jan 24, 2014  New Oil train rules. 

Interesting note about Pittsburgh, PA.  Both CSX on the South side and NS on the North side crossing over at the Convention Center to the point, have significant main line traffic in this area.  IMO.  I guess it was O.K. when it was only unit garbage trains from New York City headed to Ohio land fills. 

A picture of the Double track NS bridge over the Allegheny River from the David L. Lawrence Convention Center, Downtown Pittsburgh, PA.  Fort Pitt High Railer train display, Home and Garden show, early March. 

 

Big story also in today's Chicago Tribune, about the mayor of Chicago requesting a tax on transporting RR oil tanks through large cities. That's the cure,,,,,TAX THE CRAP OUT OF THEM!

Ans places like Houston, Corpus Christi, and Freeport TX have huge refineries in or near them!  How do you get the oil to them.

 

Maybe the NIMBY needs to start translating  the UN numbers on 18-wheel tankers on local highways.  Bet they do not know what is on the tax supported roads running by their house!

Makes sense.  I can imagine the Chicago conversation goes something like this:

 

Mayor Rob:  "Pssst.  Hey Railroad guy.  Yeah, you."

Engineer:  "Yeah?"

Mayor:  "Nice oil train you got there.  Be a shame if something was to happen to it.  Make sure your donation to our flower fund arrives on time.  Capish?"

I'm not sure why those in charge just don't send bills for fire/emergency response to those involve. It all would eventually go to those responsible for the liability insurance.  At that point if you are following the Lac Megantic tragedy, if there isn't enough liability, let the legal system sorts it out.  .......And maybe we should keep the Montreal, Maine, and Atlantic RR running awhile for a few more dollars........  Not my expertise, but my guess would be those tax dollars collected off those crude oil shipments would go to the general fund, not to a specific, interest bearing account, set aside, for that catastrophic event.  IMO.  Makes good press/news media.   May be after Hillary,  Rob wants a shot at the White House, Look what I did for you........   IMO.

The real solution is to do what the railroads have been asking for and retrofit and retire older tank cars to either bring them up to current safety standards or not use them.

I think that retrofits are just a stopgap measure. What really needs to be done is to get new,up to date tank cars built. Unfortunatly, the two(yes two) tank car plants are operating at capacity attempting to build as many cars as will be needed to replace what there is on the rails now. This will take a few years, maybe more----

IMO.  Think big (Big).  What you are seeing is an infrastructure transportation system that is in overload.   The emerging oil/natural gas sources are some distance from refining facilities.  There has to be a lot more pipeline work done and done quickly.  Or some of those processing plants have to move from Texas to the Northeast. 

You don't see trains running to the North Slope of Alaska, there is a pipeline.  IMO, the political insanity of this country has to get it together. 

Western PA, Marcellous shale, and Eastern Ohio, Utica shale are heavily under development, with huge resources available. My understanding is that rail transportation is a stop gap measure, until the infrastruction, (pipe lines), to move product are in place, which takes time after the exploration phase (drilling) is done.

IMO

  

From what I have been reading the pipeline will only be north-south, like to the gulf coast. Rail will be needed to transport to all other areas the pipelines don't go. They are still saying rail will be providing a lot of transportation even if the pipeline is built. Rail provides much more flexibility. 

They need to build tankcars with a thicker shells.Or rerofit older tank cars.There is one thing bothering me about this.It seems that these derailments have gone up in recent years.The railroads have moved freight across thia country for years.And by in large have done a good job doing it.I think there should be a  of an active effort to find out something.

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about this matter.

Just to clear things up a little pipelines need many employees to run and maintain the pipeline just as the railroads do, as for obama saying we do not need pipelines, well that is about as smart as killing the the coal mines and their jobs.  Railroads could not begin to move the massive amounts of product that pipelines do, that said those trains are the only way at this time to move the bakken shale oil.  Pipelines are as expensive to build as rail lines, but rail can carry anything versus what a pipeline can ship.

Pipelines aren't as fun to watch or model, though.

I don't remember a lot about the Alaskan pipe line, but there were some interesting points.  Some of it is above ground, something about the perma-frost.   There are Caribou Crossings, one of the many environmental issues.   I believe there are heating stations to keep things flowing.   Getting to the North slope was no easy task, some of the mountain crossings required some significant engineering and installation.   One would think after 40 some years, it would be about wore out.   So there are things about a pipeline that could be modeled   Maybe one of those caribou crossings.