Can motor upgrade for a Max Gray Erie K5 - looking for input

I would think a Pittman 94xx or 92xx would fit. MTH and Lionel heavy Pacifics use them as well as my Sunset NYC 4-6-2.

Pete

The 94xx and the 92xx is the same motor except for the location of the wires.  The 9 indicates the diameter and the 3rd position x indicates the magnet and the fourth position x indicates the length of the motor.

A 9x33 or a 9x34 would be the appropriate motor.  The 9x33 is more than sufficient for a pacific.  Sometimes the 9x34 is too long to fit.

Ed

A 9433 will fit. I did a Max Gray K5 many moons ago for one of my dad’s clients…..a fella in Midolothian Va,…….the slightly shorter 9433 will give you the wiggle room as the bottom of the firebox detail gets a little tight,…..in fact, mark your chassis with a sharpie right where the firebox detail ends, and you’ll know where the “ do not cross” line is….the gear box in that model has a 4mm worm shaft, so same as the Pittman. RC car driveshafts are available in multiple lengths, and end bores, ….4mm end bores is an option. Pictured below: KTM Westside J3a with RC car CV type shaft. You can find me via profile for a link…

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

A 9433 will fit. I did a Max Gray K5 many moons ago for one of my dad’s clients…..a fella in Midolothian Va,…….the slightly shorter 9433 will give you the wiggle room as the bottom of the firebox detail gets a little tight,…..in fact, mark your chassis with a sharpie right where the firebox detail ends, and you’ll know where the “ do not cross” line is….the gear box in that model has a 4mm worm shaft, so same as the Pittman. RC car driveshafts are available in multiple lengths, and end bores, ….4mm end bores is an option. Pictured below: KTM Westside J3a with RC car CV type shaft. You can find me via profile for a link…

Pat

Thank you, Pat. That is very helpful. Exactly what I was looking for.

Next question... where can I find the 9433 or 9233? Quick search isn't coming up with much.

Jonathan,

What? No thanks to me?  I suggested the 9x33 first!

Ed

@jonnyspeed posted:

Next question... where can I find the 9433 or 9233? Quick search isn't coming up with much.

Lionel sells them. Just search on Pittman. 9433 is 56mm. They have the 15v version but operation is very close to a 12v motor.

Pete

@jonnyspeed posted:

Next question... where can I find the 9433 or 9233? Quick search isn't coming up with much.

https://www.lionelsupport.com/....1V-NO-HARDWARE-56mm

@Ed Kelly posted:

Jonathan,

What? No thanks to me?  I suggested the 9x33 first!

Ed

Sorry Ed. Yes, thanks to everyone who chimed in.

Thanks for the link. How odd, I went to Lionel and searched but only got results for larger version which was sold out. I'm ordering a few now. Appreciate the assistance!

@jonnyspeed posted:

Thanks for the link. How odd, I went to Lionel and searched but only got results for larger version which was sold out. I'm ordering a few now. Appreciate the assistance!

I just searched for Pittman, it was in the second row.  You might have been too detailed in the search!

A can motor will make a up grade. Can motor run slower than the older motors. A dubbel cut worm will restore the speed. Max Gray worm gear  will have to send the old worm gear  are a bit different than USH. If you can find a USH gear box and send the locomotive to a machinist to install and re 1/4 the drivers

John, does your Max Gray K5 have a brass gear box?

The nice thing about Max Gray and USH steam engines is they were built like tanks.

The MG engines did not have the nice lost wax castings that later USH and Westside did, but you can add them. As far as the drive goes , the early MG axles were 1/4 or .250 in. The later USH were metric, so if you want to change the gearbox to a USH box you also need a metric bearings and axles. The hardest part is quartering. I hope this helps, I don't claim to be an expert , but I just wanted share this.

@harley rider posted:

The nice thing about Max Gray and USH steam engines is they were built like tanks.

The MG engines did not have the nice lost wax castings that later USH and Westside did, but you can add them. As far as the drive goes , the early MG axles were 1/4 or .250 in. The later USH were metric, so if you want to change the gearbox to a USH box you also need a metric bearings and axles. The hardest part is quartering. I hope this helps, I don't claim to be an expert , but I just wanted share this.

The early MG axles will take the KTM gear box, the bearings & gear can be bored to accept the 1/4” axle,….however, it was always hard to find separate sale KTM gearboxes except on the secondary market,….in the case of the K5, I do remember swapping out the gear box on the example I worked on, ….more than likely I used a NWSL, as at the time, they were plenty available….now not so much….

Pat

Pat, I used to be able to find the parts at O Scale West but that was then.  I wonder if the NWSL gear box if available might  better ?  This is like working on a 65 year old car or truck, not all parts are in stock.

@harley rider posted:

Pat, I used to be able to find the parts at O Scale West but that was then.  I wonder if the NWSL gear box if available might  better ?  This is like working on a 65 year old car or truck, not all parts are in stock.

I bought a NWSL gearbox from them about two years ago. Email them with your needs. The new owners are getting back up to speed.

Pete

@Norton posted:

I bought a NWSL gearbox from them about two years ago. Email them with your needs. The new owners are getting back up to speed.

Pete

I knew you had bought one Pete, was that for Weaver Dreyfus you built? Or the Sunset K5?…..I lose track of the gazzillion engines you’ve built this year,…..😉

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

I knew you had bought one Pete, was that for Weaver Dreyfus you built? Or the Sunset K5?…..I lose track of the gazzillion engines you’ve built this year,…..😉

Pat

Pat it was for the Williams 773. This is what it took to tame the speed from the 9:1 Williams gearbox.

Pete

@harmonyards posted:

The early MG axles will take the KTM gear box, the bearings & gear can be bored to accept the 1/4” axle,….however, it was always hard to find separate sale KTM gearboxes except on the secondary market,….in the case of the K5, I do remember swapping out the gear box on the example I worked on, ….more than likely I used a NWSL, as at the time, they were plenty available….now not so much….

Pat

So this is not filling me with an abundance of confidence... Hope I didn't bite off more than I can chew.

What motor is in the Max Gray? If it is a permage change it. If a series wound a  new Diodes bridge rectifier  may   make  a difference.

@jonnyspeed posted:

So this is not filling me with an abundance of confidence... Hope I didn't bite off more than I can chew.

Take it one step at a time man, swap your motor as you desire, and see how it runs. Then, if you’re still not satisfied with it, but you’re not comfortable swapping a gear box, then get a hold of me, ….nothing is life altering in this hobby……..😉

Pat

Finally got the engine delivered. Looks like someone may have done most of the work for me. It has a PSC gearbox and possibly a can motor, but I won't know until I take it apart. Should find out this weekend.

@jonnyspeed posted:

Finally got the engine delivered. Looks like someone may have done most of the work for me. It has a PSC gearbox and possibly a can motor, but I won't know until I take it apart. Should find out this weekend.

That’s great news!!….gotta love it when that happens!!

Pat

PSC gear box is high class, ….not meant for us mere mortals…..😉

Pat

Looks like you really scored, can you post a picture?

@harley rider posted:

Looks like you really scored, can you post a picture?

Absolutely. It will be late this weekend as I'm off on a camping/fishing trip today :-)

@jonnyspeed posted:

Absolutely. It will be late this weekend as I'm off on a camping/fishing trip today :-)

Do you ever post those pictures?

Did you catch anything? 

Mark in Oregon

I have a couple MG locos.   And I found just changing the motor was a fine upgrade.    The ones I had with the original MG motors ran very slowly, so I wanted to increase the speed a little.    I found a new permag motor, either USH or a can motor did the job.     I did not change gearboxes.

@Strummer posted:

Do you ever post those pictures?

Did you catch anything? 

Mark in Oregon

Opps. Sorry.

What a nice K5!

Indeed...

Mark in Oregon

That's certainly a handsome rascal!

Hmm, that loco looks really good and also like it has had some TLC.    I think I would run it a bit and see if I like the way it behaves before I take it apart.  

I recently acquired a nice US Hobbies Santa Fe 4-8-4 (numbered 3780) which has been upgraded with a can motor, LED headlight, wireless drawbar, and NWSL wheel sets for the pilot, trailing truck, and tender trucks. I had to fabricate new handrails leading from the boiler walkway down to front deck and paint them, because the old ones had been lost somehow. The engine runs very smoothly with its can motor and original USH gearbox with new grease and lubrication all around.