Can motors in Flyer post war steam engines

I'm assuming you're still running AC to the track and along with the can motor (which are usually DC motors), you installed a component (Dallee reversing PCB?) to handle the reversing function and to convert the AC current to DC current for the can motor.

One way to get more smoke with less voltage, and I'm sure there are other ways, would be to rebuild the smoke unit with fewer wraps of ni-chrome wire. See Tom Barker's repair guide if you have one. Tom indicates the correct resistance of the wick/wire assembly is 35-50 ohms. I'd measure the resistance and see what you have now (remove the connecting wires to the smoke unit first, then proceed accordingly. For instance, if you measure 50 ohms as is, rebuild the smoke unit with fewer wraps of wire for a lower resistance. The smoke unit will draw more current and consequently make more smoke at any given voltage. Disclaimer, I've not done this myself, but in theory it should work. The hazard in doing this is, with too few wraps and too little resistance, the smoke unit draws too much current. The engine runs slower than you may like because the smoke unit is "robbing" current from the engine. The smoke unit does smoke great quantities of smoke.  And the ni-chrome wire does burn out prematurely. This I do have experience with.  Best bet if you're lucky enough to have measured 50 ohms on your existing smoke unit and can rebuild it and end up with 35 ohms, that may yield an acceptable result all the way around. 

I'm sure there are electrical ways to address you problem by adding some kind of voltage dropping device in the motor circuit while leaving the smoke unit with full track voltage. Someone smarter than me can chime in on what's available to do this. And I will  happily stand corrected if I've shared or provided any incorrect information or comments.

Bill

Kelso, WA

Yup still running on AC, using the Dallee reverse unit with smoke and headlite connected directly to the tender truck rivets.,  Will test the ohms out and try to re-wire heating element...

Thanks,  Marty

Did you see Carl Tuveson's response? I received an email of it but I don't see it showing up on this thread. As usual, Carl's info is spot on. He certainly has more expertise than I do. Regardless his last comment, "Rebuilding the smoke units is an art". I would certainly agree with. I've started to rebuild one but usually run out of patience before I get done. I can never figure out or have the eyesight or dexterity to wrap the ni-chrome wire around the wick and not have it cross over itself. The wire wound resistors are intriguing. First I've heard about them for use in a smoke unit. Makes sense. If they came with leads already attached, that would be fantastic and I would think make the job easier. I need to check that out. Down side of course, might be there's no adjustment like wrapping another wire around the wick or wrapping one less. 

Bill

Kelso, WA

You can also put some diode pairs in series with the motor to drop the motor voltage while allowing full voltage to the smoke unit.

What diodes would you use and where do they go??   Are they connected to the motor brush wires on both sides or on one?

Marty

I use 1N4007, because I have a bunch of them. any 1N400X (where the 'X' represents any number) will work.

Hook them together, back to back, one in each direction to either motor connection. Each pair of diodes, hooked back to back, with the pair in series with either motor lead, will drop the motor voltage by about .7 volts. To drop 1.4 volts, use two pair. To drop 2.1 volts, use three pair, and so on.

*-1< *

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This is much simpler in a picture, but I am not adept at putting pictures on this forum. Sorry.

By back to back do you mean the ends that do not have the silver bands???

Waw looking on Newark element site  and se a 1n4004is rated 400v peak reverse voltage, item number 10m2938 would this be good to get???

Marty

1N4004 is perfect.

This is WAY simpler to do than it sounds. A picture would do fine and I apologize again for not having the talent to provide a picture.

Take two diodes, place them side by side next to each other in opposite directions, connect the silver band end of one to the plain end of the other by twisting the leads together. Do the same thing on the other end, so the pair look like a Tootsie roll with twisted ends. Each end of the assembly will have one band diode end and one plain diode end.

What you have just created is a constant .7 volt drop. No matter what current you feed through this diode pair (up to the point of failure), it will drop .7 volts.  Make three or four of these diode pair .7 volt drops.

Hook the diode pair in series to either terminal of the motor. It does not matter which terminal. You can even hook some diode pairs to one motor terminal and others to the other motor terminal if you need to for space reasons. It does not matter which motor terminal and the polarity of the diode pairs does not matter.

You want the motor power to go from the source, into the diode pair, out of the diode pair, into the motor, out of the motor, into another diode pair, out of that diode pair, and back to the source. That is the definition of wiring all of them in series. Again, the diode pairs can be any number of them, and they can all be on one terminal of the motor, or you can put some on one motor terminal and some on the other. It does not matter.

The power for the smoke unit does NOT go through the voltage dropping diodes. The power for the smoke unit goes from the source, into the smoke unit, out of the smoke unit, and back to the source.

That means that the smoke unit gets full voltage, while the motor gets voltage that is reduced by however many voltage dropping diode pairs you have hooked to the motor. You can use as many voltage dropping diode pairs as you want to in either motor lead, until your smoke output increases to where you want it to be.

I hope this makes sense. I have been working in electronics for so many years that I no longer remember how to explain why some things are done.

If you want to call me, send me an email with your phone number.

The best person to explain this is the gentlemen who is a "fine example of the Cleveland public school system" but I do not recall his name.

I sent a email to you Roy

Marty

RoyBoy's suggestion is spot-on, I've used it myself on the original Railking O-27 Mohawk. The first Railking steamers used a copy of Flyer's Choo-Choo and smoke unit.  I replaced it with a genuine flyer Choo-Choo/smoke assembly (long story why) and used diodes in the manner RoyBoy described. The smoke output is wonderful while maintaining slow speed. I heartily recommend RoyBoy's suggestion. 

I got some 3 amp diodes today, does anyone know how they connect together and connect to the motor

Marty

Here is a up-date to my question...I ordered some diodes from Dallee, and following their excellent instructions, I installed them.  It dropped the voltage to the motors by  3.8volts, now it smokes like a charm without having to go lightning fast...

Marty   

3

Hooray! You did it!  

Al;ways glad to hear success stories like this.

I use bridge rectifiers since they are more compact.  I did this on several of my post-war engines and the smoke output is much better.  (Lionel and AF). On a bridge rectifier, connect the + and - together.   Then use the other 2 leads (marked AC) to put in series with the motor.  I got 1.5 amp units, which seem to work.  Of course , a higher amp rating would be better.  See Jameco electonics.

Lots 'O' Trains here