Can not add PS3 engine

No luck with conventional factory reset.  And confirmed the DCS/DCC switch is on DCS.

What is the MTH number of your locomotive?

SubM,

   Try putting new battery or a new BCR in your P3 engine, and use a programming track and see what happens.

Sounds like you have a dead battery, in your brand new engine, it happen to me with my 263E when it was delivered to the Iron Horse. Frank replaced the battery on the spot.

PCRR/Dave

There are no batteries in PS3. Maybe it might take a minute to charge the capcitors in the engine kinda like a bcr. Just a thought. I have not played with one yet.

Ralph,

   No batteries in the P3 engines, what keeps the engine operating electrically when it crosses back to back or triple switch set ups, as the engines runs the layout?

PCRR/Dave

Marty - 30-20038-1

Dave,

   No batteries in the P3 engines, what keeps the engine operating electrically when it crosses back to back or triple switch set ups, as the engines runs the layout?

A super capacitar, just like a BCR.

Barry,

    Could you please explain this technology a little further for me.

I would like to understand just how this super capicator works, how does it store enough energy to compensate for missing that amount of current.  What a great piece of technology if it actually works.  Man I must be getting old.

PCRR/Dave

Make sure the new engine is on a track with no other locos on it

Dave,

 

A capacitor is a device that stores electricity, somewhat like a battery but for much shorter periods, typically seconds or minutes. The super capacitor in PS3 engines is able to charge enough to provide several minutes of electrical output in a few seconds, and can store this energy for as long as a couple of hours or so.

 

The BCR, often used as a battery replacement in PS1 or PS2 engines, is a super capacitor. The BCR is discussed in The DCS O Gauge Companion 2nd Edition on page 161 under 

Battery Substitutes.

This and a whole lot more is all in "The DCS O Gauge Companion 2nd Edition", now available for purchase as an eBook or a printed book from MTH's web store site! Click on the link below to go to MTH's web page for the book!

Since you haven't received many trouble shooting suggestions; probably due to our collective limited experience with PS3, I'll start it off with a couple of "this is what I'd check" comments.   Bear in mind that I don't have a PS3 loco yet, but I have read the manual for one.  

 

It sounds as though the loco is not receiving the "watchdog" signal on initial power up of the TIU. Since you stated that no other engine on the track, we got that covered.  Not sure if the PS3 loco should make that tell tail "click" sound when it receives the watchdog signal.

 

Does the loco go thru the start up routine(head light on 1-15 sec, then off) , followed by "normal" start up in conventional mode?  Does it operate all right in conventional?  Are you waiting for the capacitor to finish charging(head on-then off) before you try to add it?

 

I would slide that DCS/DCC switch to DCC to insure the thing isn't wired wrong. You never know.   I would work that switch back and forth a few times; it may be stuck in the wrong position.   According to the manual it won't hurt anything if just the DCS signal is present. 

 

You might try hooking fixed 1 to a separate section of track to see if that works to get it to add, though I'm not sure why that would help. 

 

OK; I'm out of ideas.    Good luck!

 

Submariner,

Since your engine is starting up in conventional, it may be the DCS/DCC switch causing the problem. Just as Mike suggests, first try moving the switch back and forth a few times. This has worked on some of the 3rail/2rail switches on PS2 engines. 

If it has a 3rail/2rail switch is it in the right position?

 

I believe you should be able to see if the capacitor is working by throttling off track power and see if the engine sounds continue running. But the engine still has to see the watchdog signal to work in DCS.

Thanks for all the replies!

 

At first when I put the engine on my DCS mainline track, it started up as if in conventional mode.  I then moved it to my conventional track and the engine worked fine in conventional mode.  This is the track I used to do a conventional factory reset.

 

I've now put it back on an isolated DCS track to fixed 1.  The engine does not have the telltale click when it gets the watchdog signal, though this is my first PS3 engine and as Mike says I am not sure if the PS3 engines are supposed to have the click or not.

 

Interestingly, the engine now does not go through the conventional start up sequence on my isolated DCS track, but just sits there.  I've tried it both with the switch on DCS and on DCC just in the off case that the switch was wired incorrectly.  I've waited longer than the 15 sec capacitor charge-up - tried waiting 5 or 10 minutes with no luck.  The engine doesn't have a 2rail/3rail switch.  It seems like the engine is just not picking up the watchdog signal for some reason.

 

I also just happened to be reading OGRR run 256 this morning and page 27 outlined some problems with PS3 and TIU that sounded a lot like my issue.  However, I already have v4.2 and use a Z-750 as AUX power to the TIU.

 

I did notice something odd - when I added one of my PS2 engines back to test that the track/signal/remote were still working, the engine has a T in parentheses like: (T) displaying on the remote - not sure if that has anything to do with it.  I've never seen that before.

 

My only other idea is to swap out my transformer running fixed 1 - it's a K-Line Power Chief 120 watt from the mid 2000's.  Will try that next but am running out of options.  I'll be seriously bummed out if I need to send it back, as it otherwise appears to be a really well done engine.

 

The (T) means the remote is tethered to the TIU.

 

The engine should just sit there on a DCS track until you hit Startup. Are you sure the TIU is listed as #1? Check on startup.   I just had an instance where upon turning everything on it showed I had 1 TIU and 6 AIUs!!  I shut it all down and restarted after a few seconds and it was fine.  I have no idea what caused that, maybe a short when I was running trains.  

Submariner,

 

Maybe you should run the engine in conventional for a while and then try again. Maybe the wheels aren't making a good connection to the track and running it might wear them in.

SubM,

   Now that Barry has furthered my education on Super Capacitors really being a miniture BCR.  I do beleive you have something major wrong with your P3 engine, sorry to say I do beleive she is going back for repairs.

PCRR/Dave

 

My last suggestion is to locate another DCS system(hobby shop, or wherever) to see if it will function with that one.  That would eliminate the possibility that it's something related to your DCS system. 

 

There is a NASC in Manchester, if you are anywhere near there. 

 

Mike,

  As a last ditch effort that is not a bad idea, however if his other engines operate

correctly his DCS is functioning.  Testing the P3 engine on a different DCS unit will difinitely tell him his P3 engine is the problem however.

PCRR/Dave

His other engines are PS2. They don't require the latest version upgrade to operate, whereas the PS3 does(I think).  Since he did the upgrade himself, it may be possible that the upgrade has a bug.  Testing with a new version L  system might verify that the problem is not in the operating system(or it might), and therefore in the engine.

 

It's just eliminating another possibility, however unlikely.   

 

It would really be a bummer to send the loco in and have them tell you "it works OK when tested with our DCS".  

Agreed Mike - that's my next step.  Will bring it to my LHS to test tomorrow.  My TIU is an older one, Rev I3.

I had the same problem with a new P3 engine. The 2 rail switch 3 rail/2 rail button was in the middle position and after i pushed it to fully on the 3 rail side the engine added and everything was OK

Mike & Sub,

   If I remember correctly the P3 engines will operate with the 3.1 TIU, however some individual control items will not function, the engine however should start up and run.  If I am mistaken Barry will definitely correct me.  Can't remember just were I read it.

PCRR/Dave

No luck with the LHS.  Logged a support ticket with MTH.

 

David- unfortunately this engine does not seem to have a 2 rail/3 rail switch.

Mike,

If I remember correctly the P3 engines will operate with the 3.1 TIU, however some individual control items will not function, the engine however should start up and run.  If I am mistaken Barry will definitely correct me.  Can't remember just were I read it.

Possibly you read something about this in the latest OGR where George Brown tested a PS3 engine and had some difficulties getting it to start up on Fixed #1 when Fixed #1 was also how the TIU was being powered. When he placed the engine on Fixed #2, however, it started up fine.

 

As I recall, George was using older DCS software and when he powered the TIU via the Aux. Power port, the engine started up fine consistently on both Fixed #1 and Fixed #2.

 

In thinking about George's issue, it occurred to me that there were two things that changed in DCS in Release 4.0x. One was that a considerable chunk of TIU startup code, that was causing AIU issues, was completely removed. The other was that the watchdog signal went from 0.5 seconds or so to 5 seconds in duration. 

 

Now, let's combine the following:

• Buggy stuff in George's TIU's startup code
• A much shorter watchdog signal in George's TIU
• Fixed #1 is a slightly different animal when it's being used to power the TIU than when it isn't
• PS3 engines, with their super capacitors, may need a hair more time than does a PS2 engine with a battery to start up "sane".

Possibly thsi as enough of a "perfect storm" to cause issues when powering up a PS3 engine under DCS 3.x on Fixed #1 when the TIU is being peered by the Aux. Power port. 

However, this is just a guess on my part.

 

By way of comparison, my new PS3 ALP-46 runs just fine on all channels of my TIUs using DCS 4.20 with TIUs powered via the Aux. Power Port.

Had the same problem with my P3 CSX Dash 8 .. slid the dcc/dcs and 2/3 rail switchs back and forth thinking thats the problem and after a good minute I got it to read .. my thoughts are it took the capacitor this time to charge .. works fine now on both fixed and variable tracks  .. i'm on 4.1   ...

Barry,

  Thanks again, I thought you would have read the review.

Probably best for him to up grade to 4.0, but I thought the P3 engine should start up and run, with the 3.1.   Got to admit I can't keep up with all the changes.

PCRR/Dave 

RailKing engines do not have the 3/2 convertible capability.  That's only available on the Premier line items(for now). 

Dave, thanks for the reply and suggestions. I am already on version 4.2 for both the TIU and remote

Spoke to the MTH techs today.  They suggested adding 15ft of wire between the TIU and track...apparently it needs some load to properly pick up the signal.  If the wires are too short on a small layout it sometimes has problems.

 

Unfortunately, that didn't work in my case.  Once I added the 15ft of wire, the engine again powered up on DCS track as if in conventional mode but the horn beeped intermittently and then steadily, but the engine still would not add to the remote. It worked fine in conventional mode on conventional power, so I don't think there's any pinched wires.

 

So, she's going back for service.

 

Thanks to everyone for the replies and help.

PS3 engines don't have the relay click.

 

If I read this right the engine is seeing the watchdog signal as you say it just sits there as that's what it should do as it's waiting for a command.

 

I think you have something going on with your DCS setup..possibly? 

PS3 engines don't have the relay click.

 

If I read this right the engine is responding exactly how it should when powered up under DCS..It just sits there awaiting a command as it's seen the watchdog signal.

 

I think that there maybe something going on with your DCS setup.

Submariner,

 

Please keep us posted and let us know what you find out.

 

Good luck,

 

Dave

Just wanted to post the conclusion to this:  a pinched wire I couldn't see was the problem.  MTH service sorted it out as quickly as can be expected.  MTH techs on the phone were very helpful.

 

My Alco PA is running on the layout now, and though I'm disappointed with the initial problem out of the box , the service experience was good and I expect this engine will be one of my faves.

 

Thanks to all on the forum for the support and advice.

 

I have the same identical problem but with a PS3 Alco RS-1 Diesel Engine #30-20080-1.  Went through the troubleshooting process as listed in this thread to no avail. Just got off the phone with MTH and the engine is on its way back to them for repair.  I will post again when I find out what the cause of the problem is.

I got the RS-1 back from MTH a couple of days ago and put it on my layout last night.  It now runs great.  However, the packing slip from MTH states, "Tech Reassembled Broken Coupler NO DCS PROBLEM".  While I am happy to have the loco back  in good working order the repair explanation is quite puzzling.  I guess I will never know.