Can someone catch me up on the Lionel and MTH control systems?

Well to start off, if you still have your old CAB1 system, you can reuse it, That's what I have on my layout and it works great.

To run your MTH PS2 & PS3 systems you'll need a TIU & DCS Remote. Both have been discontinued but can be found on the second-hand market. You can also use the TIU to run your TMCC & Legacy engines by connecting the Lionel BASE to the TIU with an interface cable from MTH (50-1032).  If you want to retain some of the legacy features when operating them with the TIU/DCS REMOTE, you'll need a SER2 between the Legacy Base and the TIU. Lastly, you can buy a new BASE 3 from Lionel, and a CAB1L remote (almost identical to your old CAB1 remote) and use that handheld (or a CAB2) remote with the BASE3. The new WTIU from MTH can use the older the DCS Remote but it must be tethered with a curly phone cord to the WTIU.

I've attached a couple of graphics that might help explain how all of this hooks together:

Wow........I'd say H1000 pretty much has this covered sir.

God idea of the addition of the graphics H.

Wow, thank you H1000 so much! The graphic definitely helps! I really appreciate you explaining it in such detail.

@H1000 posted:

Are the commons of the TIU output all tied together again?  I seem to recall that the commons on the later TIUs were discrete making it necessary to connect the Lionel base "1 wire" to all 4 commons if there were no other points where they were connected.

Attached are PDF versions of the graphics above. Much easier to read!

@MartyE posted:

Are the commons of the TIU output all tied together again?  I seem to recall that the commons on the later TIUs were discrete making it necessary to connect the Lionel base "1 wire" to all 4 commons if there were no other points where they were connected.

I believe you are correct Marty. The Lionel BASE units will need to be tied to each common output of the TIU.

@MartyE posted:

Are the commons of the TIU output all tied together again?  I seem to recall that the commons on the later TIUs were discrete making it necessary to connect the Lionel base "1 wire" to all 4 commons if there were no other points where they were connected.

Correct. Only the original issue TIU from 2002 (Revision G) had the commons tied together internally. Every other issue TIU does not have the commons tied together internally.

@H1000 posted:

I believe you are correct Marty. The Lionel BASE units will need to be tied to each common output of the TIU.

@Lou1985 posted:

Correct. Only the original issue TIU from 2002 (Revision G) had the commons tied together internally. Every other issue TIU does not have the commons tied together internally.

I thought so.  I still have my original TIU from 2002 so it was never an issue for me.

I have 2 loops and a rev L TIU. The legacy one wire is only connected to the output for the inner loop on the TIU. I have no problems running TMCC on either loop. I guess it all depends on your track plan and wiring.

My layout has around 500 feet of track, the Legacy connection is one wire near the center at the power panel.  The DCS connections are a bit more involved and require some planning of the wiring to have proper operation.

A great reference for installation, usage, and troubleshooting is the DCS Companion 3rd Edition by the late Barry Broskowitz.  $31.85 on Amazon.  Be sure to get the 3rd edition.  The first and second editions are usable, but IMO are only worth it if obtained at a deep discount.  (Right now, the 2nd edition is for sale on Amazon for 23 cents less than the 3rd edition, so you need to be careful.)

Finding hardware can be challenging.  While many of us like the dedicated remotes, finding parts and repairs will be tough in the future.   

@Mallard4468 posted:

A great reference for installation, usage, and troubleshooting is the DCS Companion 3rd Edition by the late Barry Broskowitz.  $31.85 on Amazon.  Be sure to get the 3rd edition.  The first and second editions are usable, but IMO are only worth it if obtained at a deep discount.  (Right now, the 2nd edition is for sale on Amazon for 23 cents less than the 3rd edition, so you need to be careful.)

Probably a better bet is the DCS WiFi Companion 2nd Edition Rev. 3-18.  Barry told me that it had all the important stuff from the DCS Companion and that the DCS Companion was not going to get updated, any updates would be in the DCS WiFi Companion.  Since it was released a year later, it's the most current document we will get.

@Mallard4468 posted:

Finding hardware can be challenging.  While many of us like the dedicated remotes, finding parts and repairs will be tough in the future.   

I picked up a bunch of repair parts for both the TIU's and the DCS remotes, I plan on riding them to my grave.

If you are not in any rush, I'd suggest waiting a year or so, as both the Lionel and MTH systems are going through a transition phase due to new equipment (Lionel) and new business model (MTH).  Things may look different and have varied cost implications when things are more settled.  Your choices in early 2024 may be different than right now.  Just a thought to consider moving forward.

You can certainly obtain a DCS wi-fi TIU when it comes out, for example, but it will not operate wirelessly with a DCS remote(no longer in production).  You'll have to hard wire a DCS remote to the wi-fi TIU.  You can certainly purchase an older TIU and DCS remote for wireless operation, but they will be expensive and out of warranty.  But perhaps MTH will be producing a new remote in the future despite their stated intention not to do so.

On the other hand, you can use your cab-1 and command base for your TMCC and Legacy locos and wait and see how the base 3 shakes out.  You may not want to purchase a cab-1L and the new base 3 for $600+ in late 2023, or you may.  Then again you may not want to purchase a second hand cab-2 and Legacy command base now at the prices being asked, not to mention an uncertain future availability of parts and repairs.

Bottom line, for many folks the current command control choices for both systems may not be all that attractive, and things will likely be clearer, though perhaps not better,  down the road.

Maybe I missed something. You can run any MTH engine conventionally. Won't get all the features but can be done. With a TPC or Legacy Powermaster you get shortcuts for most common MTH sound features. (PFA's, etc.).

"Maybe I missed something."  I don't think so. If conventional remote control of PS2 and PS3 locos from MTH is an acceptable option, that's another alternative. That said, if he buys a Legacy Powermaster, he'll need the Legacy system too, as it won't work with his older TMCC system,  if I'm not mistaken.  The TPCs will work with TMCC, but are also out of production and out of warranty, only available on the secondary market I believe.  Correct me if I'm wrong please .

@Landsteiner posted:

Bottom line, for many folks the current command control choices for both systems may not be all that attractive, and things will likely be clearer, though perhaps not better,  down the road.

Problem is, we're all getting older, so waiting for the "next best thing", only to find it's not that good, looks less appealing for every day that passes.

Having tried almost everything, the smoothest and most problem free engine control is battery powered wireless,  available in several formats from many suppliers. PS: Conventional control is OK, too.

@Landsteiner posted:

"Maybe I missed something."  I don't think so. If conventional remote control of PS2 and PS3 locos from MTH is an acceptable option, that's another alternative. That said, if he buys a Legacy Powermaster, he'll need the Legacy system too, as it won't work with his older TMCC system,  if I'm not mistaken.  The TPCs will work with TMCC, but are also out of production and out of warranty, only available on the secondary market I believe.  Correct me if I'm wrong please .

The Legacy Powermaster uses the TMCC track signal for commands and works with both the original Cab1 base, Base1L, and Legacy base.  The Legacy Powermaster can be addressed as ENG 1-98 or TR  1-99 so it recognizes Legacy commands (TMCC2) in addition to the original TMCC commands.  The TPC recognizes only the original TMCC commands which limits the TR addresses to 1-9.

Getting me a newer unit -

NEW MTH WTIU's for $350.00  Fall 2023 here - DCS WiFi Digital Command System 2 (WTIU) (cttrains.com)

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Apparently Ron, you're reading impaired as well.

How exactly is he running his existing equipment?  Is it necessary for you to pollute every thread on command systems beating your drum for battery power and DCC?

Sharing information John, not polluting .

Take look in the mirror.  Bob's comment is no different than the 100s of posts where you have written about your passion of ERR.

Has anyone told you to give it a rest?

For the record the equipment the op mentioned can all be run BPRC.  Some without any electronics upgrades.

Ron

@Ron045 posted:

Sharing information John, not polluting .

It's information they didn't ask for and it fills threads up with too much to do about something the OP didn't want in the first place.

OK...after PLENTY of alerts, I am closing this thread.  Some folks apparently had too much coffee for breakfast this morning???  Edited and deleted enough here and so now have to go back to work....GHEEEZZZ!