Canadian Interest in O Gauge Trains

My wife and I love Canada and we try to make a visit at least yearly or more often.  That being said,with differences in currency,taxes and shipping,many Canadians come south to do their shopping.  The outlet malls around here are crowded with our Canadian friends.   I was told that high duty rates and taxes keep the selection of goods sparse and more expensive,so they come south to shop.

I regularly  fish the Niagara River,Lake Ontario and the St. Lawrence.  Often I  visit with Canadian fishermen.  They are always on the  lookout for fishing lures in the US or from us fishermen.  The selection of equipment in Canada is meager and very expensive they say.

The prices of all goods are rather costly in Canada due to taxes and duties.   Visits there are expensive.

Norm

Canada is a small market and they have high taxes to pay for all their social welfare programs which bring in more votes than toy trains. During Prohibition we smuggled booze in to the US so turn it around.  At Ft. Niagara you can practically spit across to Canada.

In the past 10 years there have been many Canadian National, Canadian Pacific, Ontario Northland, Toronto Hamilton & Buffalo, and British Columbia Railway Locomotives and freight cars made by Atlas O,  MTH, Lionel, and Weaver Models.

Have all of them been sold and bought in the USA, then taken to Canada?

falconservice posted:

In the past 10 years there have been many Canadian National, Canadian Pacific, Ontario Northland, Toronto Hamilton & Buffalo, and British Columbia Railway Locomotives and freight cars made by Atlas O,  MTH, Lionel, and Weaver Models.

Have all of them been sold and bought in the USA, then taken to Canada?

Well Canadian National and Canadian Pacific have a much larger presence in the US now that they did 20-30 years ago when they were largely Canadian domestic railways.

jim pastorius posted:

Canada is a small market and they have high taxes to pay for all their social welfare programs which bring in more votes than toy trains. During Prohibition we smuggled booze in to the US so turn it around.  At Ft. Niagara you can practically spit across to Canada.

Haha! Yep, if only Seagram's and Hiram Walker had brought back Lionel tinplate on the return trips of all those empty bootlegger boats during Prohibition, they wouldn't have been the only ones getting rich!

I did most of my purchases in 2013 when the cdn dollar was strong. I purchased online several times and payed dearly every time as others have mentioned. In Montreal there really are only two stores and I have purchased from both. If I buy engines I usually buy from Max Trains due to the service they provide.

I have also used my trips to the US during this period to order in the US and have items shipped to my work in Ohio. Then I would drive back with my items at a later date. I have also had things shipped to hotels a few times as well.

There also seems to be a fair amount of used stock been sold in stores as well. I have found some interesting items this way along with buying from individuals ie five non-powered locos

Next year we are planning a trip from the Chicago area to Montreal.  I can pick the week.  Are there any decent train shows and swap meets held between Windsor and Montreal?  If there are, I could bring a trunk full of O gauge rolling stock.   John

I don't know whether this in range for you, or whether you are interested in real trains.

I have been to this railroad museum a couple of times while traveling between the Capital District and Montreal:

Canadian Railway Museum
review

rattler21 posted:

Next year we are planning a trip from the Chicago area to Montreal.  I can pick the week.  Are there any decent train shows and swap meets held between Windsor and Montreal?  If there are, I could bring a trunk full of O gauge rolling stock.   John

There are a few but this is the one I go to twice a year in April and November...

http://www.expo-train.com/

It's organized by the Scouts and always seems to be full of exhibitors which about 6 have O gauge items but only about three have decent stuff. 

As others have mentioned other scales are more popular up here so it might not be worth the trip.

A friend of mine in Ohio keeps telling me he should send me a bunch of items to sell up here but I don't see it being realistic. 

When I purchased my first OGR magazine back in 1997, I saw the MTH NYC Hudson and just had to have one. Ironically, the only one I could find was from a dealer in Canada. I bought it and had it shipped to Maine where I was living at the time.

I just made, a couple months ago, a circle tour of eastern Canada...Cape Breton Island back to Montreal (jeez..get out of the county! All our 110/120 volt razors and phones plug right in). It ain't Bangladesh. While l saw plenty of people at tourist sites, you sensed, driving through all those trees, and smaller cities, the first that the herd might be a little thinner up there.  Surprised duties are so high for stuff never made there, but our duties make no sense, either. Vote to change it. On a trip decades ago, when l spent time in Quebec, l noticed the smaller houses,but better styled and attractive, vs. a house that small here usually looks like a cracker box. I think that might have been the French influence.  Canadians are coming HERE for cheaper gas?  I remember when they were driving up from Detroit for cheaper gas. 

yamawho posted:

rattler21 posted:

Next year we are planning a trip from the Chicago area to Montreal.  I can pick the week.  Are there any decent train shows and swap meets held between Windsor and Montreal?  If there are, I could bring a trunk full of O gauge rolling stock.   John

There are a few but this is the one I go to twice a year in April and November...

http://www.expo-train.com/

It's organized by the Scouts and always seems to be full of exhibitors which about 6 have O gauge items but only about three have decent stuff. 

As others have mentioned other scales are more popular up here so it might not be worth the trip.

A friend of mine in Ohio keeps telling me he should send me a bunch of items to sell up here but I don't see it being realistic. 

 

Hi,

There is a store just north of Montreal, called  JacHobby - it's a bit tricky to get to - mind you the website is also a bit wonky. I've been to the store, it has selection, and they also have an O scale club in the building.

Expo-Rail, awesome museum by the way, has a big model railroad show every August on a weekend (the 17th thereabouts).  Check out last year's museum brochure, it happened on August 20th weekend.

Check out this video - my favorite was one guy who set-up an O scale layout, and made it interactive for kids to launch Lionel accessories.

I love that museum!

Mark

Jachobby had selection but stopped bringing new items when the dollar went down.

Max Trains has lots of new sets, locos and cars.

I'm Canadian. I rely on internet exclusively to purchase. The "LHS" is an hour away . . . and is a joke anyway.

Canadian dealers: Absolutely no stock! MSRP always! High additional shipping costs!

When I returned to the hobby two years ago, there were two sellers on ebay with a lot of Canadian livery stuff. I bought several thousands of dollars worth of locos and rolling stock from them. One of those sellers is gone. The other sells only HO now.  Next to nothing O-guage on ebay to speak of from Canadian sellers now.

Ordering on-line from US dealers is the only remaining option for me. Yes, shipping costs are often atrocious! Ebay's global shipping program is ridiculously costly. Shipping simply has become a huge impediment to buying! It's often the large volume, low weight, low cost items, like many scenery supplies that just are not economical to ship.

The problem here in Canada  is most of the trains are HO   this no doubt an off shoot of the Hornby influence from England where most of  our immigrants came from  .    The Canadian market being  spread  more thinly across the land  adds to the problem , combined with the historical absence of railway towns   dealers have a  difficult time promoting   larger scale trains.   While we live in north america  we are not American   big does not always figure in our plans  ......

I   have a Lionel set from 1959 ,  most of my recent purchases were off E Bay   , due to the shipping costs I had the items shipped to a cousin in Boston and  then went down to pick the stuff up  .......... Getting across the border  was another  problem  however as Canadian customs  will  apply taxes  on the goods according to tariff regulations     fortunately I used to cross at a little border  entry at Alburg Springs   most of the time I was able to bluff my way around paying  the tariff duties    but I would not have  tried this at a  larger crossing

Now I am in Alberta , this option is not longer viable so I have to watch the few and far between train meets  if I want to pick up some deals     but  other than that   I would rather live here  and pay a little more for things then any where else in the world.

Watching CNN now where there is talk of 45 per cent tariff on Asian goods. That might bring mfg. back here....and drive hotel taxes way up in Asia��. Noting other comments, decent train shops air few and far betwixt in many parts of the lower 48+2..with the few found mostly HO and N. Shipping costs are no bargain here either, in spite of lower fuel costs. But those tariff costs would put us in the mukluks of our frosty friends.

That was CNN talking, I wouldn't believe any of their speculation. Western Pa.-eastern Ohio has lost a lot of jobs but we are still lucky in having quite a few decent hobby stores with O gauge things plus the shows.

Rapido Trains has offered so many Canadian Specific HO scale models that railroad modelers would be more likely to get into HO scale than O gauge and O scale.

Andrew

falconservice posted:

Rapido Trains has offered so many Canadian Specific HO scale models that railroad modelers would be more likely to get into HO scale than O gauge and O scale.

Andrew

That's a good point. If I wasn't an old guy (nostalgia for big trains) I would have been in HO to get models of the railroads that I love.

I really love Canada and Canadians.  One of the best countries on the planet for sure.

I have a lot of Canadian trains, and I encourage MTH to make them.  And guess I am lucky to have lower shipping costs in the USA.  But my health care costs about 15 times more than in Canada, so I guess they get a break there.

I think it's possible from the USA, so try going to that auction site [dot ca] instead of [dot com].  Go to your favourite trains section and see what Canadians are looking at for CDN$ pricing and shipping. I'm lucky enough to live close to the US border for cheaper shipping and self pick-up, but still only shop very selectively on the secondary market. (i.e. I'm cheap)

Lionel / 3R0 never has been a competitively priced hobby item in Canada, and checking a couple of hobby shop websites shows only US$ prices. Any inventory items will be dusty for a long time, but I suspect much of it might be non-inventory; just order-only.

Pacific Western Rail Systems makes Canada specific HO scale and N scale operations more appealing than what Atlas, Lionel, and MTH have to offer. 

Their North American Railcar Corporation has exact replicas of Canadian freight cars made in China for HO and N scale. They modify the models for each change in detail by the freight car builders. 

Andrew

GregR posted:

OGR Ad Man posted:

I can see this thread having the potential of going down some negative avenues....already got a couple of alerts as to whether or not it is appropriate.  PLEASE think before you post....

Alan

Alan,

Given OGR's forum membership and subscriber statistics in the Canadian market, I would think this is an important, relevant and informative discussion. Certainly, as the "Ad Man" are you not inquisitive as to what makes the Canadian market different, how to reach more subscribers, and expand the  hobby north of the border? To understand an issue requires thoughtful deliberation of both positive and negative attributes. This discussion, to my knowledge, contains no inappropriate language or content, does not disparage any forum sponsors, or slander any individuals. What alerts did you receive, and what offense has been alleged? I acknowledge and respect your warning to "think before you post". However, please conversely ask your anonymous complainants to more thoughtfully consider whether they have a true grievance.  Let's remain positive and not become negative society of "perpetually offended" delicate snowflakes There is a balance to be achieved.

This has to easily be the most thoughtful, dignifying, insightful and appropriate response to any concern I have ever seen on any message board I have ever belonged to.  You, sir, are a solid human being.

I have some empathy for our hobbyists to the North with regard to the obstacles faced in acquiring all manner of O gauge items.  I can only speak to my dealings with Larry, a friend to whom I made a transaction recently.  It went about as smoothly as it could, and making a new friend along the way was a cool bonus.  

Generally speaking, being in a household with two teacher salaries, I can really identify with the need to scour the secondary market for items out of necessity based on cost.  Thus, I admire the determination of our Northern hobbyists to keep the hobby in a place where they can find some enjoyment.

On a final note, the tone of this thread and the thoughtful discussion herein is inspiring.  I am proud to be from North America this evening, friends. 

While working at "Great Lakes" (metro Detroit area), we had a steady stream of Canadian customers, more HO than O, definitely a very intelligent lot interested in scale realism. I would usually adjust prices to help with custom duties.

I wonder about the reverse of this as well.  How many American O-gaugers are into buying Canadian prototypes?Some of the MTH VIA Rail equipment I have collected came from Canadian train dealers.  In the past I have tried to drum up interest in someone making some early VIA Rail covered wagon locomotives, F units, FPA's, E's.

Few responded.  I attempted my home painted versions of Williams FA and F3 locomotives.  (Not exactly what VIA had but close enough for me).

I would  bet that more MTH VIA F40PH's were sold to fans of VIA Rail in the USA than in their home country.

VistaDomeScott posted:

I wonder about the reverse of this as well.  How many American O-gaugers are into buying Canadian prototypes?Some of the MTH VIA Rail equipment I have collected came from Canadian train dealers.  In the past I have tried to drum up interest in someone making some early VIA Rail covered wagon locomotives, F units, FPA's, E's.

Few responded.  I attempted my home painted versions of Williams FA and F3 locomotives.  (Not exactly what VIA had but close enough for me).

I would  bet that more MTH VIA F40PH's were sold to fans of VIA Rail in the USA than in their home country.

Scott,

There you go again teasing me with those amazing F3's you painted up. I sure wish MTH would make up a set in that scheme. Closest thing was their turbotrain but I won't even go there. That thing was a mess. Meanwhile, I've given up on Lionel taking on anything in Via livery.  I think Lionel still feels stung by the poor sales of their 1957 CP passenger set and never got past it. Maybe some day....

Anyone interested in O scale Canadian trains should consider becoming a member of the Canadian Toy Train Association. Over the years they have had produced by Atlas, MTH and Sunset Canadian prototype freight, passenger and motive power. They are based in western Canada (Vancouver) but that is no problem purchasing their limited edition rolling stock (I live in New York), shipped to your doorstep.

http://www.canadiantoytrains.org/

Canada is a very big country with a very small population. So the amount of people in the hobby would be much smaller then here. I love Canada. Lived in Niagara Falls NY most of my life and had the opportunity to enjoy TH&B, CN and CP trains coming to the states. Gave me my passion for Canadian road names. And in the last fifteen years or so the manufacturers have produced a lot of engines and cars in Canadian road names. For Canadians it has to be hard to find let alone and buy at their prices so I suppose they order here and have it shipped there which must add tremendously to the price.. I used to belong to the  LCCC until it dissolved. But I found a group up in western Canadian that filled the void for me the CTTA. .................Paul

GREGR,

  Was it you that emailed before about the VIA aluminum cars?  If so please email me again, lost a few emails inadvertently.

Scott

And on an opposing note ( getting real controversial now ) I lean towards American roads, with Pennsy being my favorite.  There once was a fleeting lust affair with CP, but that has since passed.  Call me unpatriotic, it's just that the major American roads had such a wide variety of motive power.  GG1's travel the same rails as Warbonnet F3's, a Burlington S4 and a Hiawatha Hudson.  Most were sourced locally.

It pleases me to see such approval for this topic, especially when it appeared my initial post was what caused such torment.  Being Canadian, we don't let a few flakes bother us.

Bruce

I wonder about the reverse of this as well.  How many American O-gaugers are into buying Canadian prototypes?Some of the MTH VIA Rail equipment I have collected came from Canadian train dealers.  In the past I have tried to drum up interest in someone making some early VIA Rail covered wagon locomotives, F units, FPA's, E's.

Few responded.  I attempted my home painted versions of Williams FA and F3 locomotives.  (Not exactly what VIA had but close enough for me).

I would  bet that more MTH VIA F40PH's were sold to fans of VIA Rail in the USA than in their home country.

For no rhyme or reason,  since I was a kid,  I always liked the older Canadian Pacific maroon & gray w/the beaver logo whether it be steam engines,  diesels or passenger cars(including the stainless streamlined cars).   I currently own two 3RD Rail CP 2-10-4 Selkirks,  #5931 & #5935,  a 3Rd Rail CP FP7A,  F7B,  FP7A set that are all powered,   a Lionel Legacy scale CP F3A,  F3B,  F3B,  F3A  set that are all powered.   Have the Golden Gate Depot aluminum "Canadian" 10 car set,   the Lionel CP 18" aluminum 6 car set w/extra cars,   Golden Gate Depot group of 9 CP heavyweight cars,  and MTH Premier group of about 19 CP Madison heavyweight cars.   Everything has various pros and cons,  but I like 'em all!   I won't bring up my former Turbotrain 

Nick

Being a Canuck I had to jump in here. We live in Calgary and have for most of my adult life. As a kid we spent a couple of years in Washington DC which is where my dad got into O gauge, and why I am still into it.

There are a few of us diehard O gaugers in town and there is a 2 rail scale O gauge club, but no 3 rail club as such. There are 2 train stores in town but their stock in O gauge is very limited. With the lousy exchange on our dollar currently, train purchases have dwindled to only "must-haves". That's ok, got too much stuff anyway. We spend winters in Arizona so any train purchases get shipped there, then come home with us in the spring.

i will echo the fact that we are taxed to death up here compared to our US friends. We pay much higher income taxes, liquor taxes, tobacco, gasoline, you name it. As an example you can buy a 24 can pack of Bud Lite for 17 bucks and change at Walmart in Arizona. That same 24 pack is 48 bucks or so here in the great white north! A 5 pack of Backwoods Honey Berry that costs Around 6 bucks in AZ costs over 18 bucks here. And it goes on and on. A train item costing say 500 US will be around double that amount Canadian by the time shipping, duties, taxes etc are factored in. Certainly dampens your enthusiasm. And our new liberal government can't give tax-payer money away fast enough.

Sorry this got long winded. Back on topic, there are O gauge 3 rail fans up here in Canada for sure but we are few and far between. We won't give up the torch though, no matter what!

Rod

I wonder if Canada's interest in model/toy trains is in proportion to the number of real train lines/names it had back in the 40's, 50's, & 60's. Did Canada have as many RR companies servicing as many industries, such as steel, as the USA did?

My point is that there were so many railroads crisscrossing the USA, servicing immigration, industry, and re-settlement of people from the East that many people became quite enamored of trains because they saw and used them so often in and around their cities and farms.

I am from the Pittsburgh, PA area, and we saw real trains every where, every day, throughout our lives during those decades, which included numerous road names, such as B&O; P≤ PRR; C&O; Erie; Lackawanna; Erie Lackawanna; New York Central, etc. moving around us all the time.

It was that intimate viewing of real trains that inspired my interest in toy trains, I theorize. For example, my father worked in the steel mill in McKeesport, PA, and a rail line cut directly and diagonally right through the main shopping district, serving the steel mill. When you shopped on its main-drag, you timed your visits to various sections of that avenue according to when you knew a train would pass into or out of the National Tube U.S.Steel works, trains which often sat still for quite a while, totally blocking pedestrian and vehicular traffic for as long as they pleased, which meant we kids could reach right out and touch steam  locomotives, for example, with and under the blessing of careful parents.

Here are those tracks, with a train headed directly into the mill...We used to lean on that railing on the right, ...separating the tracks from the sidewalk. The bus is on the main avenue for shopping, in those days.

Such omnipresence of real-life trains was typical of all the towns up and down the Youghiogheny, Allegheny, Monongahela, and Ohio rivers, which is only one part of the story of trains in the USA. We children, now model train hobbyists, loved seeing trains and being able to touch them, so getting our hands on toy trains seemed as natural as picking up a bat to play baseball.

Perhaps this may be relevant to the answer to your question. However, I have no concept of how much a presence in daily life real trains were in Canada.

FrankM.

Moonson posted:

I wonder if Canada's interest in model/toy trains is in proportion to the number of real train lines/names it had back in the 40's, 50's, & 60's. Did Canada have as many RR companies servicing as many industries, such as steel, as the USA did?

My point is that there were so many railroads crisscrossing the USA, servicing immigration, industry, and re-settlement of people from the East that many people became quite enamored of trains because they saw and used them so often in and around their cities and farms.

I am from the Pittsburgh, PA area, and we saw real trains every where, every day, throughout our lives during those decades, which included numerous road names, such as B&O; P≤ PRR; C&O; Erie; Lackawanna; Erie Lackawanna; New York Central, etc. moving around us all the time.

It was that intimate viewing of real trains that inspired my interest in toy trains, I theorize. For example, my father worked in the steel mill in McKeesport, PA, and a rail line cut directly and diagonally right through the main shopping district, serving the steel mill. When you shopped on its main-drag, you timed your visits to various sections of that avenue according to when you knew a train would pass into or out of the National Tube U.S.Steel works, trains which often sat still for quite a while, totally blocking pedestrian and vehicular traffic for as long as they pleased, which meant we kids could reach right out and touch steam  locomotives, for example, with and under the blessing of careful parents.

Here are those tracks, with a train headed directly into the mill...We used to lean on that railing on the right, ...separating the tracks from the sidewalk. The bus is on the main avenue for shopping, in those days.

Such omnipresence of real-life trains was typical of all the towns up and down the Youghiogheny, Allegheny, Monongahela, and Ohio rivers, which is only one part of the story of trains in the USA. We children, now model train hobbyists, loved seeing trains and being able to touch them, so getting our hands on toy trains seemed as natural as picking up a bat to play baseball.

Perhaps this may be relevant to the answer to your question. However, I have no concept of how much a presence in daily life real trains were in Canada.

FrankM.

Frank,

Love the photos.   In that first picture,  as my dad used to say many years ago,   "the sidewalk superintendents were all on duty today".    The Immel building is still standing but vacant.   And believe it or not,  that old wooden B&O elevated gateman/gatekeeper shanty at the corner of Walnut & Sixth is still standing!   It sits at one corner of a small parklet.

Nick

machinist posted:

Moonson posted:

I wonder if Canada's interest in model/toy trains is in proportion to the number of real train lines/names it had back in the 40's, 50's, & 60's. Did Canada have as many RR companies servicing as many industries, such as steel, as the USA did?

My point is that there were so many railroads crisscrossing the USA, servicing immigration, industry, and re-settlement of people from the East that many people became quite enamored of trains because they saw and used them so often in and around their cities and farms.

I am from the Pittsburgh, PA area, and we saw real trains every where, every day, throughout our lives during those decades, which included numerous road names, such as B&O; P≤ PRR; C&O; Erie; Lackawanna; Erie Lackawanna; New York Central, etc. moving around us all the time.

It was that intimate viewing of real trains that inspired my interest in toy trains, I theorize. For example, my father worked in the steel mill in McKeesport, PA, and a rail line cut directly and diagonally right through the main shopping district, serving the steel mill. When you shopped on its main-drag, you timed your visits to various sections of that avenue according to when you knew a train would pass into or out of the National Tube U.S.Steel works, trains which often sat still for quite a while, totally blocking pedestrian and vehicular traffic for as long as they pleased, which meant we kids could reach right out and touch steam  locomotives, for example, with and under the blessing of careful parents.

Here are those tracks, with a train headed directly into the mill...We used to lean on that railing on the right, ...separating the tracks from the sidewalk. The bus is on the main avenue for shopping, in those days.

Such omnipresence of real-life trains was typical of all the towns up and down the Youghiogheny, Allegheny, Monongahela, and Ohio rivers, which is only one part of the story of trains in the USA. We children, now model train hobbyists, loved seeing trains and being able to touch them, so getting our hands on toy trains seemed as natural as picking up a bat to play baseball.

Perhaps this may be relevant to the answer to your question. However, I have no concept of how much a presence in daily life real trains were in Canada.

FrankM.

Frank,

Love the photos.   In that first picture,  as my dad used to say many years ago,   "the sidewalk superintendents were all on duty today".    The Immel building is still standing but vacant.   And believe it or not,  that old wooden B&O elevated gateman/gatekeeper shanty at the corner of Walnut & Sixth is still standing!   It sits at one corner of a small parklet.

Nick

Hello again Nick,

Is Balsamo's still there on that corner?

Bill

WftTrains posted:

machinist posted:

Moonson posted:

I wonder if Canada's interest in model/toy trains is in proportion to the number of real train lines/names it had back in the 40's, 50's, & 60's. Did Canada have as many RR companies servicing as many industries, such as steel, as the USA did?

My point is that there were so many railroads crisscrossing the USA, servicing immigration, industry, and re-settlement of people from the East that many people became quite enamored of trains because they saw and used them so often in and around their cities and farms.

I am from the Pittsburgh, PA area, and we saw real trains every where, every day, throughout our lives during those decades, which included numerous road names, such as B&O; P≤ PRR; C&O; Erie; Lackawanna; Erie Lackawanna; New York Central, etc. moving around us all the time.

It was that intimate viewing of real trains that inspired my interest in toy trains, I theorize. For example, my father worked in the steel mill in McKeesport, PA, and a rail line cut directly and diagonally right through the main shopping district, serving the steel mill. When you shopped on its main-drag, you timed your visits to various sections of that avenue according to when you knew a train would pass into or out of the National Tube U.S.Steel works, trains which often sat still for quite a while, totally blocking pedestrian and vehicular traffic for as long as they pleased, which meant we kids could reach right out and touch steam  locomotives, for example, with and under the blessing of careful parents.

Here are those tracks, with a train headed directly into the mill...We used to lean on that railing on the right, ...separating the tracks from the sidewalk. The bus is on the main avenue for shopping, in those days.

Such omnipresence of real-life trains was typical of all the towns up and down the Youghiogheny, Allegheny, Monongahela, and Ohio rivers, which is only one part of the story of trains in the USA. We children, now model train hobbyists, loved seeing trains and being able to touch them, so getting our hands on toy trains seemed as natural as picking up a bat to play baseball.

Perhaps this may be relevant to the answer to your question. However, I have no concept of how much a presence in daily life real trains were in Canada.

FrankM.

Frank,

Love the photos.   In that first picture,  as my dad used to say many years ago,   "the sidewalk superintendents were all on duty today".    The Immel building is still standing but vacant.   And believe it or not,  that old wooden B&O elevated gateman/gatekeeper shanty at the corner of Walnut & Sixth is still standing!   It sits at one corner of a small parklet.

Nick

Hello again Nick,

Is Balsamo's still there on that corner?

Bill

Hi Bill,

First-my apologies to everyone for semi hijacking this thread.

Bill,  If I remember correctly,  Balsamo's closed about the mid 1970's along with a number of stores adjacent to them on Fifth Ave.   And within a few years,   the City of McKeesport then bulldozed about 3-4 city blocks where Balsamo's stood and built a "new Midtown Plaza shopping center".   The first floor was like going into a cave.   Lots of politics involved.

Nick