Another flag falls.
Rusty
Original Post
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I had no plans on modeling their engines, but they were really neat looking. It’s sad to see logos and paint schemes go away.
Even though KCS is the smallest of the Class 1’s; I would not at all consider this proposal to be a “slam dunk”.
NS’ participation in the Meridian Speedway line will have to be addressed as will probable objections from CN or the other railroads.
Since KCSM really involves more of a long term lease of the railroad in Mexico; you can bet their regulators will have something to say about this as well.
Curt
If Canadian Pacific pulls this off, it will make CP the first truly trans-continental railroad, linking all 3 North American countries. Hate to see the KCS's beautiful paint scheme succumb to CP's drab maroon. It makes great business sense for CP, but the price tag, $25B, might diminish the potential upside.
Warren will make a bid.
UP, CSX, CN, and NS are particular women of the chorus who have not had their turn to sing.
And is there not a "Surf Board" in Mexico?
My guess:
Kansas City to Laredo to CP
Laredo south: Some sort of open access?
And how would NS, CN, and CSX get to Laredo if thete is open access? Open access and/or trackage rights on KCS, UP, BNSF?
And will the rule about what other railroads might do to counter this merger apply?
Transport Canada will also say something.
@Dominic Mazoch posted:Transport Canada will also say something.
Like what?????????? Wouldn't the Surface Transportation Board and the U.S. Justice Dept. be a bit more involved?
@GregR posted:You’re in luck. Canadian Pacific stopped using drab maroon in 1968.
I like those old colours, not the new ones. 
See how I spelt colors?
Greg R: Just (2 days ago) saw 3 CP locomotives heading a manifest through the western suburbs of Chicago on BNSF - - - they were drab maroon and absolutely filthy ! Granted, the more common CP scheme is a cheerful red.
@Oman posted:I like those old colours, not the new ones.
The cursive writing, gold accents, and maroon look like retro baseball. As long as we are talking about the same design I love it!!!
@Oman posted:I like those old colours, not the new ones.
I actually miss the old CP Rail mulitmark.
Rusty
Looking up Canadian Pacific I see that they own the "Central Maine and Quebec Railway."
Here is the logo. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...uebecRailwayLogo.png
I would love to see this logo on a Lionel Legacy locomotive!
We don't see much of KCS on this side of Missouri but I will miss the locomotives. That paint scheme they use is beautiful.
This is very interesting, and seems to make sense to create a bigger network. Anyone see a combined rail network map? I would like to check it out.
Oh, here is one: rail network
Maybe CanPac wants another way to move Canadian oil south, since the pipeline got shutdown.
Steve
An end-to-end merger creates the first north-south international connection in North America. Little wonder they want it. And I'll be the announced name won't last past all the legal stuff. The real name will be revealed when the merger actually occurs-maybe something like Canadian Southern?
The merger makes sense I just hate to see another fallen flag. I am shocked no one has attempted a merger with KCS earlier all things considered.
On a side not I am glad I bought KCS stock years ago. Doing very well now.
To the extent that Transport Canada has a say in vetting this merger, they will need to address reduced competition at 2-1 points in Canada. And for shippers currently located on KCS and shipping to points in Canada, the STB needs to assure current gateways and routing options remain open and affordable as well.
About 70% of rail served points in Canada are open to interswitching. Essentially, this means that while you are physically switched by one railroad, you can still contract with the other to handle your outbound or inbound shipments. If a Canadian customer on CP is currently using CN to handle shipments to KCS points in the US, the CN option will evaporate with this merger. Likewise, a KCS shipper in the US shipping to points in Canada that can utilize either CP or CN will lose the CN option. I don’t have the statistics concerning how much traffic would be impacted in this manner but, I made extensive use of the interswitching option with chemical traffic prior to my retirement in mid 2019.
If the interswitching option as it relates to traffic to and from KCS points is not retained and affordable, this merger will have negative impacts on competition despite it being end to end in nature.
In coming months you will likely read many stories emanating from Calgary and Kansas City about how great this merger will be for shippers. Don’t believe any of it. Mergers generally serve only to reduce competition and drive up costs to customers - especially manifest customers with few options other than rail. Any potential advantages are fleeting and, from a customers perspective, largely unrealized. And I state this from the perspective of one who worked as a rail shipper for over 40 years and experienced the multitude of mergers that took place during that time.
Curt
KCS gets to Larado from Beaumont TX through trackage rights on UP. One issue. This sends traffic through the congested Houston terminal. This terminal can easily lock up. Or flood.....
Latedo to Beaumont:
1. Laredo to Robstown: KCS.
2. Robstown to Victoria: UP
3. Victoria to Rosenberg: KCS
4. Rosenberg to Beaumont via Houston: UP
5. Beaumont north: KCS.
@Trinity River Bottoms Boomer posted:I'm also a firm believer that Conrail should have survived to serve the Northeast/Midwest market. I still refuse to accept the likes of CSX and NS on NYC , NH, and PRR rails. Norfolk Southern on Horseshoe Curve? NEVER!
Joe
Rusty
Sorry to hear this. It's always a shame when another historic railroad is swallowed up and disappears forever. Business is business, but it certainly makes things less interesting. It was nice to see KCS remain independent, and apparently doing well. I hope customers weigh in and oppose it. As Curt says, they are often hurt by these mergers.
@RamblerDon posted:The merger makes sense I just hate to see another fallen flag. I am shocked no one has attempted a merger with KCS earlier all things considered.
On a side not I am glad I bought KCS stock years ago. Doing very well now.
I don't think the prior management team would have gone for it. There's been some changes in the C-suite within the last 4 to 7 years. They're obviously more willing to consider this type of merger. Not that the previous team was bad; to everything there is a season.
Steve
It will be interesting to see how much actually changes. Currently the CP's lines in the US are all under the Soo Line with main office here in Mpls-St.Paul. I know people think of Soo Line as a "fallen flag" but it still exists as a corporate entity, since a company in a foreign country cannot directly own a US railroad. FWIW there are still engines and cabooses around here in Soo Line paint even after all these years. From what I've read about CP-KCS, I think what will happen is CP's US rail lines will all placed under the KCS umbrella, with HQ moving to Kansas City. From a railfanning point of view, there might not be much change for some time.
Not surprising with the cancellation of the Keystone Pipeline. Question is whether the road stays intact as a Canadian-owned US Company or becomes a fallen flag.
Steve way up in thread and Matt - Great observation, a pipeline on wheels right down to all the US refining capacity.
What is the condition of the KCS, especially in the Ozarks?
