Cartoon from 1936, Play Safe

Max and Dave Fleischer used a "setback camera." Animation cels were placed in front of a background similar to scenery on a layout. On a theatre screen this had a 3D effect. It comes through on a smaller scale on TV and computer screens. I found a photo online

Here it is in a Popeye cartoon with Li'l Swee'pea. Everything behind them is on a circular hand-made set: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fnvnyb1e-p8

In "Popeye Meets Sinbad the Sailor" and "Popeye Meets Ali Baba and the Forty Thieves," the "setback camera" is used in full color: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AZAbSXmeoI

One of the locomotives in "Play Safe" is among our favorites

Interesting topic.  I admit that while it's not the same (and based on one comparison write-up I saw on an animation site, apparently a bit of a controversial topic in the animation field ), I first thought of the Disney Multi-Plane Camera when I saw this.  Clearly a different effect though.  The most striking part to me was when the kid woke up at the engine facility and then walked by all the different engines.  That was a neat shot.

I found this YouTube video with a bit of the process for the Fleischer setback camera, part shows the film cell mounted in front of the scenery on the turntable and then the next cell hung in front of the turntable scenery with it rotated slightly.

Pretty neat!

-Dave

ReadingFan posted:

Max and Dave Fleischer used a "setback camera." Animation cels were placed in front of a background similar to scenery on a layout. On a theatre screen this had a 3D effect. It comes through on a smaller scale on TV and computer screens. I found a photo online

Thank you for this enlightenment.  This cartoon has fascinated me since I first saw it as a child the the late 50's.

Lou N

Lou, the multilane camera rig was used by Disney and Max Fletcher. When I first started out in TV I had the bottom job as a film editor. I put the reels of cartoons together for the Saturday morning kids shows. We had a number of Warner Bros. Looney Tune packages and a large Paramount package that included the Max Fletcher cartoons. They were all the regular ten minutes reels except for two or three longer ones what were called two reelers. I could't use those as we couldn't get three cartoons in a half hour show. We had to cut down the ten minute reels as it was to get the commercial spots in. I was curious as to why Fletcher made these long cartoons so I projected them. They are amazing Popeye Cartoons. Turns out the long Popeye cartoons were test shoots for what Max wanted to do and that's make full length animated movies like Disney did. We had those movies in our Paramount Package. Gulliver's Travels (1939) https://youtu.be/Lx4n3aUK3is and "Hoppity Goes To Town" https://youtu.be/9_cbX17vZs0. Neither film made a profit and Fletcher never made another long forum movie.

As far as I know Disney never used a horizontal rig with model sets as background. He used his rig shooting down through layers of glass Plates that could be moved up or down. I finally got the longer Popeye's on the air after Christmas because few commercials were running then. I asked if one break could be pulled as they were all PSA's Public Service spots. My next step up the ladder in television was cutting The Bowery Boys and Little Rascal films. I was on my way. Don

Don, the animators’ family name was Fleischer. Please be careful when spelling proper names. It’s easy to verify on the internet.

https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0281502/

Sorry Jim, my problem is not spelling. I had to have my hand operated on and the surgeon totally messed up one finger so it just hangs. I often think I hit a key but don't. Don

Don, is this permanent?  I hope not, and I am sure that I speak for everyone in that hope.

Thanks Tom, as I understand it they would have to go up my arm and pull the Tendon down to reattach it. That's according to my local doctor but he's not a surgeon. I will see a new surgeon when ever we get back to the mainland. Other wise I can live with it. Don

Very cool ,thanks for all the info guys. Thanks for posting the cartoon Lou!

Brad

scale rail posted:

Sorry Jim, my problem is not spelling. I had to have my hand operated on and the surgeon totally messed up one finger so it just hangs. I often think I hit a key but don't. Don

Yikes! Sorry to hear that. I sure hope there’s some hope to correct that. 

Don,

Thanks so much.  I have been equally fascinated by the Popeye cartoons.  I knew you'd have a good story to go with the answer.  Little Rascals...those had great background tunes by Leroy Shield!

And wouldn't it be just a train collector's Holy Grail to find any part of the 3D material used in the film making process.  

Regards,

Lou N

That was a fun watch. Thanks for posting. 

Lou, Thank you for posting the question!  I have always loved watching those cartoons!!

ReadingFan, Dave, and , thank you for the information and links!!

Don, I hope they can fix your finger.

Lou, my mother's best friend when we lived in Culver City was a background artist for Walt Disney. Sometimes when she came over to our house she would give my sister and me cells from what ever animated movie they were making at the time. I don't know if they were used in a film, rejects or what but we would use our crayons to make them "better". Wish I had all those cells now. Lou, I would love to see a good 35mm print of that cartoon. That short section of the film is amazing. Don

Thank you, Lou N; ReadingDan; Scale rail and 'others' for the very interesting explanation.  Those guys really were pioneers in the film industry it appears.

I intend to send this info to one of our grand children who is in the 8th grade and getting to be an avid artist. Perhaps it will pique his interest .

I'm surprised that this subject has only surfaced recently. I remember seeing Play Safe as a kid on TV, back in the early 60's. Probably a feature on Saturday morning cartoons. I imagine it was prompted by the popularity of  Lionel & American Flyer trains at that time. My friends have the same memory and it stuck with me my whole life. The blue bullet nose engine was very similar to the steamlined engines of  Henry Dreyfuss, & Raymond Lowey, as well as others, from the late 30's to 40's. Because of Play Safe those style engines have always been favorite's of mine.

I purchased a VHS tape at a train show over 30 years ago featuring the cartoon, and it was like I went back in time to when I was a kid. I've since purchased the cartoon on DVD. I introduced the video to my Grandson when he was 2 years old & it is now a favorite of his. I'm now building that engine for my Grandsons fifth birthday, which is in a week. Unfortunately he may only get to see it through pictures or videos because of Covid-19, at least for now.

I've also created a background that I intend to add to my layout on one section. I have the prints ready to mount. Picture attached.

I also included the progress of the engine. Been at it on & off for 3 weeks. I got a lot to do in a week!

Ironman, Very nice job on the engine and tender shells!!  The background will enhance your layout very well!!

Hi Mark,

Thanks for the encouragement! My current layout has focused on realism but I think a little fantasy can't hurt.

Joe

Progress as of 4 days ago. Been doing all of the painting with rattle can, spraying outdoors. The weather has not been cooperating, cold & rainy. Did get the final coat on the engine last night, spraying in my attic. Not ideal but fairly warm & no wind or rain. Will do the final details tonight. Photos to follow, for those interested.

Sheesh Don. How do you live with that?

I get upset when I can't handle the little parts.

Didn't quite get the engine completed for my Grandsons birthday, but close. A few details need to be added, handrails for one (waiting for my K&S music wire). While not an exact duplicate it does have the look and feel of the cartoon engine. Running trains again with my Grandson was very satisfying, even under the COVID-19 limited conditions.

Next time I'll have a table rather than saw horses & storage bins to support the layout. Leveling that temporary layout was more involved than anticipated!

@scale rail posted:

Lou, my mother's best friend when we lived in Culver City was a background artist for Walt Disney. Sometimes when she came over to our house she would give my sister and me cells from what ever animated movie they were making at the time. I don't know if they were used in a film, rejects or what but we would use our crayons to make them "better". Wish I had all those cells now. Lou, I would love to see a good 35mm print of that cartoon. That short section of the film is amazing. Don

With those cels no one at the time thought much of them (and keep in mind with standard automation that is 24 frames a second, though they didn't need as many background cels as foreground since the background would change slowly, it is still a lot for a 6 minute short), they used to use them at Warner Brothers to slide down the hill, they were thrown out en masse, today those cels are worth a small fortune...it is kind of like a lot of things, who knew? 

I enjoyed watching that, thanks. When the kid turns up the speed control on the trains all the way, my thought was "besides it being 2 rails, we know it isn't Lionel, if you turned the speed up all the way the train would go flying off the tracks *lol*.

It was also cool that to show it is the kids dream sequence, the trains are shown as toy trains going over what looks like a layout, they look like classic tinplate toy trains, which is how I guess a young child would see trains. 

I had a good laugh when the kid is in the cab of the engine trying to run it and thinking  that must be what it is like when someone tries to drive one  of the beasts for the first time

@ironman1 posted:

Didn't quite get the engine completed for my Grandsons birthday, but close. A few details need to be added, handrails for one (waiting for my K&S music wire). While not an exact duplicate it does have the look and feel of the cartoon engine. Running trains again with my Grandson was very satisfying, even under the COVID-19 limited conditions.

Next time I'll have a table rather than saw horses & storage bins to support the layout. Leveling that temporary layout was more involved than anticipated!

That engine is absolutely excellent!

Lou N

Thank you!

Hello Virginian65,

To answer your questions on the other thread, I've attached images of the MTH engines I started with. Originally I had a grander plan, but the project was taking longer than I imagined & I needed to cut corners. I chose to capture the essence of the engine, rather than create an exact replica. I also didn't realized that the 4 wheel pilot truck wouldn't negotiate the tight radius of the outdoor layout. I found that out one hour before the birthday boy arrived! It does fine on wider radius curves. I need to grind away the inside of the pilot area more.

Besides the major fabrication of the nose, the tender needed to be shortened. I removed about an inch from the middle of the tender & glued it together with JB Weld, which worked out great.

A few weeks back I received the handrail stanchions I ordered from Lionel. That will help with the finishing touches, along with the other handrails I never added. I still might try to do a casting of the engine to work out the details that I'm not satisfied with.

Joe

An update/continuation to this thread.

The Play Safe engine was only one third of the birthday surprise. For the outdoor layout, I created 2 backgrounds from the Play Safe cartoon that I created in photoshop, from screen grabs. The third item was a picture book created, composed from screen grabs also. It was close to a 2 month project, on & off & a lot more effort than I estimated. Multiple technical difficulties slowed down the progress but I can say overall, I was satisfied with the effort although about 95% complete for the birthday.

Not sure if all of this will post. I'll try again if not.

Very cute and well done ironman!  What a great pdf file as well.

@ironman1 posted:

An update/continuation to this thread.

The Play Safe engine was only one third of the birthday surprise. For the outdoor layout, I created 2 backgrounds from the Play Safe cartoon that I created in photoshop, from screen grabs. The third item was a picture book created, composed from screen grabs also. It was close to a 2 month project, on & off & a lot more effort than I estimated. Multiple technical difficulties slowed down the progress but I can say overall, I was satisfied with the effort although about 95% complete for the birthday.

Not sure if all of this will post. I'll try again if not.

Outstanding!

Lou N

Thanks for the compliments!

I don't normally click on links but that was good.