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Cast Iron/Tinplate Idea For MTH or Lionel

M mtj54OGR Forum Member

ok...I know I'm just dreaming here but how interesting would this be...& Lionel or Mike...if I've hit on something here, feel free to take my dream & run with it  :-)  

My son and I did a little Christmas shopping yesterday...found a games and puzzle place right in the middle of the mall & picked up this little "Toy Train In A Tin". For the 9 bucks it cost I didn't care whats inside, I just loved the idea...of course I was immediately thinking "tinplate".

Now how cool would it be for Lionel or MTH to take something like the smaller O Gauge clockwork sets that American Flyer used to offer....the ones with the smaller cast iron wind up locomotive & tender, a few pcs of track & a couple cool tinplate cars and pack them all up in a really nice tin box that displays as good as the trains themselves... these little Flyer sets weren't too large at all, the set pictured is in a 12" by 12" box...heck, leave the track out, add some padding and away we go! Put me down for 3 of them  :-)

Asking too much?...ok, how about take something else smaller and just as cool, say the little Bing tinplate cranes, put me down for three of those also! (or anything small and cool like that) or a whole series of cool smaller trains...do the same thing, package them in a neat tin box...tinplate in a tin...you get to enjoy the trains, and look at a box so cool you'll never be able to bring yourself to tuck it under the layout....

I'm sure there are a thousand reasons why you couldn't or shouldn't do this but that's the fun part about dreaming...sometimes dreams do come true...and I guarantee that would be a year no one could say "there's nothing new in the tinplate catalog!"

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W WindupGuyOGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBER

Hmm, repro O gauge clockwork locomotives?  There isn't any reason it CAN'T be done, but probably one reason it WON'T be done... cost.  The days of quality wind up toy train manufacturing are long gone.  Just to make the mechanism would require new tooling to either stamp gears and sideplates out of sheet metal - a substantial cost for a limited run item - or use machined gears, which are pricey too.  One of the few modern day wind up trains is the Schylling/Lionel Rail Zeppelin... and the quality and performance of the examples I have seen is nowhere close to that of the classic mechanisms from Ives, Flyer and Marx.  Don't even get me started on the "Paya" repros. 

The cast iron locomotive body isn't a big deal, although it is hard to find a domestic foundry that will do a small run of a small item... and I can't imagine the hassle involved trying to get a small run of those done overseas.  Again, not that it can't be done, but I suspect the cost of just the locomotive would severely limit the market for such an item.  Also, I suspect that the potential sales for such an item would be so small that the fixed cost of the tooling couldn't be spread out over enough units to dramatically lower the price point.  But, those are just my opinions, and you know what they say about those...

Having said all of that, I would be the first in line to buy one!  How about a repro of this little gem?

AFtype1done1

 

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M mtj54OGR Forum Member

 

WINDUPGUY...I agree, most likely won't be done, that just makes me want it done all the more :-)  Actually, I couldn't even speak towards that end though...I've never "opened up" any of the cast iron clockwork loco's, so I'd have no idea what's involved inside. Although even without knowing, I suspected it wouldn't be real easy. Funny you mention the cast iron part, that to me would be the easy part. I've had a lot of connections in the past and have dealt with some great patternmakers/matchplate makers & foundries. I know of a couple foundries that'll still do low runs. I'm sure it wouldn't be as low priced as it would need to be though. Not many foundries around anymore that aren't fully automated and wanting to produce every part they do by the thousands! That being said I am certain the clockwork part would be the difficult (and expensive) part. One of the nicest and best gentleman who ever produced matchplates for me passed away this past summer. That's definitely a real art.
 
Love the loco you posted a picture of, I'm far from an expert but that's a very early Flyer correct? Love how they did the light up front!
 
Steve...I've never heard of Sunset Toys & Trains, that's not surprising, I haven't kept up over the years with the trains, always putting work first. Looks like their Facebook page is still up, they offered a lot of products, wonder what ever happened to them. Interesting to know it's been done. Every once in awhile it just takes a love of a certain item to motivate someone, Lord knows I've done many projects in my life that probably would have been better off buried before I ever started them!

 

W WindupGuyOGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBER

Mark, I would love to see a good quality modern repro cast iron clockwork!  By the time I was aware of the Sunset loco, I think it was sold out... and it was priced high enough that I would need to save up my pennies for quite a while to afford it, anyway.

I've never built a windup train motor from scratch, but I've done a fair amount of repair on them.  It isn't nearly as involved as actual clockwork - trains need brute strength for power transmission, but no need for the finesse required to keep good time - however, there are still quite a few bits and pieces.  This video shows a rebuild of an Ives No. 19, and will give you an idea of what makes these things tick:

M mtj54OGR Forum Member
WindupGuy posted:

Mark, I would love to see a good quality modern repro cast iron clockwork!  By the time I was aware of the Sunset loco, I think it was sold out... and it was priced high enough that I would need to save up my pennies for quite a while to afford it, anyway.

I've never built a windup train motor from scratch, but I've done a fair amount of repair on them.  It isn't nearly as involved as actual clockwork - trains need brute strength for power transmission, but no need for the finesse required to keep good time - however, there are still quite a few bits and pieces.  This video shows a rebuild of an Ives No. 19, and will give you an idea of what makes these things tick:

James, I often find myself spending time on the bulletin board here and running into something or someone I find so interesting that I wonder how I couldn't have found it earlier. This is definately one of those cases. Thanks so much for that video! And...my life these days with three teenagers doesn't always allow me the time I'd like to spend more time delving into things I find interesting, but I just took a look at your profile and just caught a glimpse of your website, wow! I don't know if it's just me (probably) or for everyone but you're a pretty well kept secret. Here it is Christmas Eve and I could spend a lot of time on your site, but that will have to wait a bit, I have Christmas shopping to do  :-)  I'll definately check it out more later, along with your book on Amazon because I know I'll find that interesting, Thanks so much!

M mtj54OGR Forum Member
overlandflyer posted:

two buzzkills i can think of...

1)  the Consumer Product Safety Act (1972) all but killed the idea of offering a metal clockwork locomotive as a toy.

2)  pretty sure you cannot buy Japan Black paint in the US anymore.

Thanks Overland Flyer...I'm often dreaming about things that'll probably never happen, but honestly, never dawned on me that there might be a reason like the Consumer Safety act you mention. Should have known that though, I think alot of great toys disappeared for those reasons! Wonder what it was exactly they found "dangerous" about clockwork loco's? I say that because a guy like me is probably more dangerous with electric trains than I am with wind up trains :-)

overlandflyeroverlandflyerOGR Forum Member
mtj54 posted:

... I say that because a guy like me is probably more dangerous with electric trains than I am with wind up trains :-)

oh, don't think electric trains weren't effected, too.  you may have noticed around that time most high powered transformers (eg: ZW's) also disappeared from the market.

i have tried to find some specifics about the dangers of toy trains, but first off, most of the original CPS act has been amended, but more to the point, i've discovered it is more about the liability that companies could face if they knowingly produced a product which could cause an injury.  in one version of the law, as few as three (3) cases reported over a 2 year period would be enough to bring a product into question.

frankly i can't think of one toy i played with in the 50's and 60's that would be allowed in its original form today.  i loved the smell of Greenie Stik-m-Caps in the morning!

cheers...gary

ammo
"Hey, Mom... While you're at Woolworth's could you pick me up a box of ammo?"

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Tags: MTH, tinplate, Cast Iron, American Flyer, American Flyer Clockwork, Tinplate Idea, Lionel
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