Catenary from Hobby Shop in NJ

If Mtn Lakes is making it, it's not cheap.

I wouldn't expect it to be. Model catenary systems never have been "cheap."

Bob

Look at this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H841dFiqdHA

Jan

The colors leave something to be desired.  I always liked the green color they painted the hardware out in the mainline. I wounder what the contact wire is.

That is not catenary, it is a skid wire.

Your right Marty, that's not a catenary.

Wow...for those that have said that my MTH catenary system looks bad....GHEEEZZZ, this one I think just took first place!  Marty...I am with you!

Alan

Catenary shouldn't bend......my gosh. Look at the new issue of OGR and see how to make it or how it should look. This stuff is silly looking. Don

I feel like going into the catenary business...... Their stuff looks terrible..Don

That looks as if it was put together with some Lego pieces. Ghastly. Who buys this stuff?

Here is catenary.

Looks ugly and at $10 per pole it's pretty expensive.

When mentioning the color green, if you're referring to the wire, that's the color the copper becomes in an environment with a relatively high humidity level such as that along the former Pennsy electrified routes.

Here's one of my favorite treatises regarding catenary construction and modeling of same. It is written by Mr. N.T. Holley, widely recognized as an authority on the Milwaukee Road electrification. He authored the book "The Milwaukee Electrics."

Bob  

And this is PRR Catenary

No more expensive than the  MTH poles.

What is the  cost of the 30 inch overhead wire?

I have to admit....John wins!!!  Absolutely beautiful!!

Alan

John, great job.  I assume it is powered.  I know some systems exist and are not powered.  I can not understand why someone would go through the intense work and not power it. 

Actually, if painted in an overall grey, the Train Station poles will not be all that dissimilar in appeaarnce from the equipment installed by NJ Transit in upgrading its catenary system.

Bob

Uh WOW

Absolutely hideous. Never mind that it's overpriced - I wouldn't have it on my layout if it was free. 

CATenary

The catenary being criticised looks like what might have been produced in the tinplate era with just a vague regard for "realism", the sort of design that predates the concept of hi-rail. That being said with a repaint with a ultra non realistic bright color, I could see it being used on a tinplate era layout, maybe with some vintage trolleys..as for cost, well, if I did use it @ that cost, maybe a simple loop would do as in the GG1 demonstration. The lack of a manufactured catenary system is something I had brought up here some time ago before I drifted into tinplate territory. Wondering out loud in regard to the trending toward ultra realism, I wonder if that criteria would make such a system even more expensive as MTH produced one that is "somewhat" realistic at a pricey cost. Making your own as Don and Marty advocated seems to be the way to go with hi-rail and comparing Johns. Don's and especially John's there's at least some wiggle room for what constitutes realism..and at what cost..

The simplest catenary support I have come across was used on the CNS&M..seen below

Bruce

I love looking at scale catenary.  Being a toy train guy, I designed my system to look like something Lionel might have made about 1956.  It has been up and operating flawlessly for many years.  Marklin wire with homemade metal poles.   The key to sectional catenary is rock solid poles.  I use 1/4 inch square stock for the poles that is welded to 1 1/4 inch metal bases.

Marty...I never get tired of looking at your beautiful layout....love all of that wire above the tracks!

Alan

Thank you very much Alan.  Back at you as I feel your layout might be one of the best in the country.  I love the use of your tall buildings.  Of course I hate to look at your Acela after Lionel cancelled the Legacy Acela.

Thanks Marty.....That Acela will always be yours.  When the time comes for it to leave the "Twin Lakes Central"....no one else will get it....  I have already named an area of flats on the north end of the layout "Fitzhenry" and the Acela makes regular stops there!!

Thanks so much...

Alan

That is very nice of you.  Enjoy it.

Marty, you are absolutely right about the poles.  Years ago I made a catenary system but used wooden poles.  The system worked, as long as I straightened the leaning poles each running session! However, I remember the pride I felt running my scratch built trolley beneath wires and having it work. Now with age, experience, and some OGR knowledge I am working on a layout I had to let sit for 11 years while trying to get my back repaired. The last fusion worked and it's full steam ahead! I even purchased a set of Lionel Rats which will run on overhead wires!

Bill 

You could easily do that. Making sets of photo-etched catenary would cost a lot less than you think. I'm surprised no one has done it yet.

My poles cost less than a dollar in real money.  Each required a lot of labor.  I could not put a price on my time as it was a labor of love.  I made a jig that would hold the pole straight and verticle on the metal base.  I then welded each one.  Strong and straight but a lot of work.  My cross arms are basswood and are designed to hug the pole and are adjustable.

Runs great--Yes.  Many hours involved.  I experimented with HO and N gauge rail.  I experimented with welding rod, music wire and many other possibilities.  The home made poles I made with the Marklin wire is the best yet and works perfect. 

Many situations come to play in designing a catenary system that works.  I have hundreds of feet of catenary and hundreds of poles.  Pantographs need to be modified.  The only pans out of the box that are sprung pefrfectly are MTH E-44 and Atlas AEM-7.  All others need extra tension on the springs.  It looks like Lionel could have made it in 1956. 

Before MTH started to sell catenary, Mike was at the house studying my system and I told him if he is going to do sectional catenary, the poles need to be rock solid. 

Marty, your catenary looks great. You are so right about the poles. They have to be strong and not move at all. On curves there isn't much leeway between the pantographs and wire so if the poles aren't solid you loose contact. The layout I'm building now will be my third layout using Marklin wire. For me everything had to be a compromise between scale and strength. I have found MTH and Lionel Milwaukee type pantographs work well out of the box but like you said, most don't. The worst are Williams. They sway back. Don

He stepped over that wire pretty neatly!

Great Job Marty!

Thanks guys.  Ralph is my train pal.  He will sit and watch trains for hours and has never done any damage.

My train cat pal was Arlo.  He was in love with the trains, watched them for 15 years.  It was amazing that such a big cat could wander through the trains and never bump anything.  He'd even demand that I run them, stand by the transformers and meow.

Whoops, sorry about getting off topic.  I liked the video.

I just received Run 264 of OGR in the mail yesterday and from the point of view of my own selfish modeling interests, it is by far the best issue of OGR in years and perhaps ever!  I'll post a separate thread to explain why I was so generally impressed with Run 264 that I stayed up half the night reading it from cover to cover.  Nevertheless, I wanted to post here that one of the standout features in this latest issue that caught my eye first was Don McCuaig's outstanding "how to" article on constructing his gorgeous Milwaukee catenary!  Don, I hope you are "photo-documenting" the entire layout project from start to finish.  It will make for a "must-have" model railroading classic for any model railroader's library.  Sign me up!

I was so impressed with Run 264 that I called Editor In Chief Allan Miller at home last night to congratulate him and the entire editorial staff on a "tour de force" effort.  After recovering from the surprise of my unexpected call, Allan asked me why I was so excited about the issue, and one of the first on my list of favorites was Don's article about building realistic catenary.  So, kudos to you, Don, for a clear and well written as well as beautifully photographed article!

I want also to acknowledge here the generosity of Marty Fitzhenry and the lovely Dotty who both took a great deal of their precious York time to visit with me about Marty's famed catenary system which was well documented in the pages of OGR back in 2009.  I eagerly look forward to visiting their layout in Massachusetts to see Marty's famed electrification system in operation, and learn as much as possible from both Marty and Don in advance of incorporating a mountain electrified division into my own future dream layout.  

I plan to feature operation of both Milwaukee and Great Northern motors set in the scenic Mountain West in order to keep alive my vivid boyhood memories of those twin engineering masterpieces, the Milwaukee's 440 mile Pacific extension electrification as well as the Great Northern's Cascade Tunnel electrified division between Wenatchee and Skykomish Washington.

I'm sure that for some toy train fans who want to merely suggest operations under catenary, the Mountain Lakes system will suffice satisfactorily.  After all, these objects of our affection are "toy trains" to a greater or lesser extent.  So, as I like to say in my sign off line below, "It's a big tent...."  For me, one of the greatest aspects of what we loosely refer to as the "toy train hobby", is that we can all pursue the aspects of the hobby that uniquely appeal to our individual tastes.  

Nevertheless, for me, I know for certain that I want to emulate the beautiful wood pole catenary artistry of Don McCuaig's Milwaukee-themed layout currently abuilding in Maui, but also combined with as much of the rugged reliability of Marty Fitzhenry's hand-crafted system as possible.  I look forward to benefiting from the experience of both these contemporary giants of the 3 rail hobby.

AppreciativeBear

Kerrigan, those are called gallows poles. I found a company that makes stock webbed plastic sections that looks just like the Milwaukee used. I just glued them together. Milwaukee used them on their trestles. I will have to look for the package and send you the link as soon as I can find it. Don