Lionel 2022 Volume 1 is up! Whatcha Getting?

"I'm getting nauseous from the prices! "

I can see your point.  Don't buy a house or car.  The average American is buying a $46,000 car from one news story I read. I paid $2,000 for my first new car in 1971.  Parental gift.  Latest car is a leased $36,000 Subaru Ascent.  A bargain in every way .

The pricing... well I guess that 7% inflation is kicking in. Not much for me - the CSX Fire Boxcar and Caboose and the firefighter figures is about all. Toying with the idea of the Black River & Western set - but it's a stretch.

So far I ordered two of the Canadian Pacific SD90MAC veteran tribute locomotives.

Im sure I will order additional items over the next couple of weeks.

Link to the show.

Ryan and Dave show 2022 V1 catalog

Nothing for me.

Re: CP Military Heritages.  I hoped for the entire fleet, but color me disappointed.  Again.  Lionel took a similar tooling shortcut as MTH by not to modifying their SD90 model.  Neither changed their SD90 cab to the SD70ACU style.

Whereas MTH used their SD70ACe model to match the ACU cab but not the longer SD90 body, Lionel just used the whole old SD90 body and painted them heritages.  While the MTH SD70ACe models looks right coming at you, the longer body and faceted tail is absent.  Lionel has the massive engine body, but the cab is obviously wrong.  Visually, it's six-of-one or half-dozen of the other as to the shortfall we are supposed to accept if we want CP Military Heritage engines.  But it is a massive shortfall to the customer, nevertheless. 

MTH 20-21500-1

Lionel

As for the other SD90 choices, the two CP Heritage with block and scroll heralds suffer the same cab issue as the military versions.

I had also hoped to see the black NS and regular red CP SD70ACU rebuilt-SD90s.  If I were buying, the only right SD90 offered is the UP patched in NS which is as sold prior to conversion to SD70ACU.  This one is at least close to accurate.

One should try to say something good to offset bad.  To Lionel's credit, even with the wrong tooling, they are doing the CP Army green 7020 and the CP Air Force 7023 which MTH did not in 2020 v2.  That makes Lionel the only O manufacturer to offer all the CP military engines.  Hopefully, Lionel will not screw up the D-Day 6644 paint with slime green color like MTH did in their Premier (Thumbs down MW/RF/AE).

@Keith L posted:

Is the Hudson Lionel's tooling or former MTH tooling?

@Trainmaster04 posted:

They look to be Lionel's semi scale Hudsons from years back.

The LionChief Hudsons in the catalog aren't the same engines as the "semi-scale Hudsons from years back," assuming you're talking about the TMCC LionMaster Hudsons, and they're not MTH tooling.

These versions in the catalog are the smaller LionChief Hudsons, the same as other baby LC Hudsons which came out previously. (These baby Hudsons can't be considered semi-scale.) Among other differences, these are 19" long. The LionMaster Hudsons were 22" long. Another quick visual give-away is the classification lights. Those on the LionMaster are separately applied, prototypical in appearance, whereas those on the cataloged LC baby Hudsons are completely different, just molded into the shell.

Many folks have wondered for a long time why-oh-why doesn't Lionel bring back the outstanding LionMaster Hudson molds.

LionMaster Hudson:

@Grampstrains posted:

After 42 years of collecting trains, there are few things that I still want or need.  I had been hoping for a LC+2.0 Wabash FM.  Not yet.

I haven't been in it quite that long, but that's were I am, too. I can speed read new catalogs, there are so few things I need. I'd been hoping for a LC+2 N&W J and Daylight. Not yet (also). Can't believe they haven't done those - they'd sell like hotcakes.

The SP Daylight scale F7s are of interest. Knew those would be coming out eventually - surprised it took this long. If it were assured that they'd match the MPC era 15" aluminum Daylight passenger cars, and the more recent aluminum 18" Daylight passenger cars (which matched each other perfectly, amazingly), I'd be very interested. Given Lionel's color issues of recent years, however, there's probably only a very slim chance they'd match, so it's a wait-and-see-them-first item.

I want most of the steam engines just because I like them but after having some time to look it over, I'm not too sure. I will definitely hold off on the CAB3 until I need it. The Class A is cool but not on my wishlist.

Either an 0-6-0 and an Atlantic, or just a Berk, or just a 2-10-4. That's what I'm considering now.

I would scoop up those coal hoppers if the doors opened. Opening doors are critical for my layout.

We'll see. I'll probably look at the catalog a hundred times over the weekend and see what I think. I do think it's a great catalog!! The horse cars and doodlebugs are very cool!

I'd love to see a LC+ 2.0 version of the new Dash 8 LC locomotives introduced in this catalog at some point in the future.  I'd buy a UP LC+ 2.0 locomotive if they ever decide to make one with the new tooling.  After enjoying the benefits of LC+ and LC+ 2.0 with the awesome speed and cruise control, I can't bring myself to buy just a "regular" LC locomotive without that feature.

My two cents is rarely worth a minus 2 cents on this board, but I'll chime in anyhow.  I only did a quick browse through the on-line catalog.  The price increases and $100 for a cheaply molded boxcar are ridiculous in price IMHO.  All the catalog prices told me I have enough trains to last a lifetime!  I have the UP turbine still on order, and 2 of the Mohawks on order - the gray version and the pacemaker version.

I will order the base 3, just for to keep up with technology.  I did not notice a DB-9 based serial port, which I felt was essential.  Perhaps I skimmed through the feature set too quickly.  I like the  B-6's from MTH with Legacy in it.  I always am a sucker for the sound cars.  I would hope the pig palace set has a better sound set than the battery operated pig palace had.  That car sounded like a skunk smells!  I still have to look more slowly through the catalog.  I do prefer browsing through and marking up the printed catalog with my wants.

It is a full catalog with lots of neat stuff, but in my opinion, $2,000.00 engines are not in most train operator's budgets.  Like many retired train folks, I am on a fixed income, that doesn't grow just because a I see things in a catalog I like.

I also very much dislike Lionel's practice of saying "all new product" or "all new tooling", when the reality is the tooling came from elsewhere, is just reused after a long time absence, and is not ALL new.

Lionel has forgotten product lines they used to make, even under comic book man.  I would like to see product offered in the Polar Railroad, as I have a sizeable investment in that product line.

Lionel has also forgotten that they used to make an awesome combination of a talking caboose that interacted in real time with a talking engine.  Can't beat that for stereo sound! Dave, try out an old set (engine and caboose) and get a few new ideas how to incorporate those features with Legacy!

That's part of the problem when your product director, and head of engineering are so young, and have very limited exposure to Lionel's product history.

So please bring back Polar Railroad, and quit making fake Polar Express freight cars!

I'll close with prices for these trains, with limited competition, is really starting to blow the roof off the market!  I don't think the increased prices have any base in the current inflation rates.  Banks aren't giving us 7% interest.  Still below 1%! If I decide I want lots of items, I will have to be like the Jesse James train gang! Cash in my gold!

@GregM posted:

Lots of items in this catalog, but the only definite, (probably, maybe,) purchase is this LionChief 2.0 Lionel Lines Hudson.

Item # 2232040  <==  Fixed the item number, accidentally deleted last digit.

Fine enough loco, but putting the haloed “773” number on it is a desecration.

My pre-orders will include a few of the Es44ac's, The UP Rocket Train, and probably the NS Anniversary set..

Base 3 is tempting.  0-6-0 switcher (NYC version) is, too, but $800 for a switcher is a bit hard to swallow.  Many interesting freight cars but, again, the price!  I'll go to a show and look for Weaver cars in great condition.

Vision Line Class A 1218

Vision Line CP Horse Car

Strasburg 31

Green Bay & Western RS-27

B&O SW1

Savage SD40-2

Soo Line F7s

Amtrak F40PH Phase V

Amtrak Veterans NPCU

N&W and/or Virginian Hoppers

All TTX Husky Stack cars

Amtrak Phase VI Coach/Cab set

Happy to announce I snagged a #993 remote (from a dealer right at MSRP!) and will now be ordering a Cab3 base to go along with it . My understanding is they should be two peas in a pod working together. I am ecstatic I was able to find one. Probably one of the last ones out that could have been found on google.

For me, I see no reason not to buy the Cab3 base. Here's my logic:

I bought the cab 1 when first out, the cab 2 (Legacy system) when first out, a Cab1L as an extra controller, so now logically I suppose I must have the Cab3 base to continue this fun tradition.

My first thought was "why buy this" which slowly (maybe really quickly) changed to "why not buy this".

Still trying to ignore the cost...

Most likely nothing.  Lionel has all but abandoned the traditional O gauge market, save for some sets and licensed/holiday stuff, which I have no interest in.  The Conrail GP20 is interesting but I’m not sure it’s worth the price.

Glad I have all of the coil cars I need. Pretty hefty price increase from what MTH charged. I will pass on this catalog too, like I have for the past several years.

@Dave Warburton posted:

Fine enough loco, but putting the haloed “773” number on it is a desecration.

I agree. Why not use the hallowed 2046 or 2056 for the semi-scale version and leave the 773 for scale as has been tradition?

@Peter Araujo posted:

Vision Line Class A 1218

Vision Line CP Horse Car

Strasburg 31

Green Bay & Western RS-27

B&O SW1

Savage SD40-2

Soo Line F7s

Amtrak F40PH Phase V

Amtrak Veterans NPCU

N&W and/or Virginian Hoppers

All TTX Husky Stack cars

Amtrak Phase VI Coach/Cab set

You're a dream Lionel Customer!

I'm seriously considering the PRR A-5 switcher.

@mlavender480 posted:

Most likely nothing.  Lionel has all but abandoned the traditional O gauge market, save for some sets and licensed/holiday stuff, which I have no interest in.  The Conrail GP20 is interesting but I’m not sure it’s worth the price.

Three catalogs ago I was where you are now.

With this and the last two catalogs I have surrendered to scale. Why? I can still run a wide variety of scale locomotives with O-36 and there are a ton of options for scale  freight cars out there for your O-36 scale locomotives to pull behind them. And you do NOT need to become a rivet counter to enjoy scale locomotives and rolling stock. Run what you want with as crazy of a mixed up consist as you want. You can embrace fantasy and scale at the same time.

Give it some thought!!

@breezinup posted:

The LionChief Hudsons in the catalog aren't the same engines as the "semi-scale Hudsons from years back," assuming you're talking about the TMCC LionMaster Hudsons, and they're not MTH tooling.

These versions in the catalog are the smaller LionChief Hudsons, the same as other baby LC Hudsons which came out previously. (These baby Hudsons can't be considered semi-scale.) Among other differences, these are 19" long. The LionMaster Hudsons were 22" long. Another quick visual give-away is the classification lights. Those on the LionMaster are separately applied, prototypical in appearance, whereas those on the cataloged LC baby Hudsons are completely different, just molded into the shell.

Many folks have wondered for a long time why-oh-why doesn't Lionel bring back the outstanding LionMaster Hudson molds.

LionMaster Hudson:

Could not agree more. I have this one and love it. Would buy another with newer LC+2 tech if ever released.

I have been looking for the MTH PRR A5 0-4-0 for years because it is more scale size than my K-line version (also Lionel's).  The A5 in this catalog looks like it might be MTH's version, although it is hard to tell.  "All new product" and "wireless drawbar" make it sound like it is not the old K-Line tooling.  Hopefully someone can confirm one way or the other.

Definitely a Class A, 1210 or 1211.  The new command base is on the list too.

I haven't tried to buy something this new in a very long time.  How long is it before we can pre-order?  How or where can we pre-order?  My concern is missing the opportunity as I believe some of these will be quiet popular.  I know they say "built to order," but does that mean everyone that wants one can get one?  Any idea on lag between pre-order and receipt of product?  I'm guessing a year plus?

Sorry for all the questions, just curious.  Most or all of my prior purchases were magazine, online, or train show.

@Madockawando posted:

Three catalogs ago I was where you are now.

With this and the last two catalogs I have surrendered to scale. Why? I can still run a wide variety of scale locomotives with O-36 and there are a ton of options for scale  freight cars out there for your O-36 scale locomotives to pull behind them. And you do NOT need to become a rivet counter to enjoy scale locomotives and rolling stock. Run what you want with as crazy of a mixed up consist as you want. You can embrace fantasy and scale at the same time.

Give it some thought!!

Oh, I have plenty of scale stuff in HO… plus I’m not a millionaire lol.  I guess Lionel has decided where the market is going 🤷🏻‍♂️

Well after the past two Lionel catalogs hitting me hard between the Acela and Strasburg 90, this catalog was a nice break. I am in for:

• Amtrak Phase V NPCU
• Vision Line Pig Stock Cars (TBD on the Roadname)
• Woodside Chapel Car
• LC 2.0 PRR Doodlebug (Steal of the Catalog)
• Monsters Inc Scream Canister Tank Car

Then there are some accessories I like but nothing I really need to preorder. I like the Southern Atlantic but after Lionel messing up the Southern 4-6-0, I will wait to see what it looks like before ordering.

@N&WGuy posted:

I really thought there’d be more N&W rolling stock to go with the A’s, but very enjoyable catalog! Too bad Lionel didn’t do any Canadian Pacific ES44AC’s, I would’ve preordered those as well if they had… Maybe MrMuffin’s could do a custom run of some? Haha 😄

I have asked Mr Muffin to consider a special run of a Central Maine and Quebec ES44ACs. The Central Maine and Quebec is owned by the Canadian Pacific. Would you be interested? It’s a very sharp paint scheme.

https://www.railpictures.net/photo/647711/

@Burl posted:

Definitely a Class A, 1210 or 1211.  The new command base is on the list too.

I haven't tried to buy something this new in a very long time.  How long is it before we can pre-order?  How or where can we pre-order?  My concern is missing the opportunity as I believe some of these will be quiet popular.  I know they say "built to order," but does that mean everyone that wants one can get one?  Any idea on lag between pre-order and receipt of product?  I'm guessing a year plus?

Sorry for all the questions, just curious.  Most or all of my prior purchases were magazine, online, or train show.

You can preorder anytime starting now.  Most of the online dealers will have their prices up.  Built to order means they only build what's ordered.  The only extras are if a dealer orders more.  Lionel will post a shipping schedule once preorders are collected.  Your guess of a year or so is probably accurate.

@Prr7688 posted:

All we need now is a West Chester RR set! They can essentially use the same tooling for the passenger cars as the New Hope set and could do a GP38 as the motive power (WCRR 7706).

How did I miss riding on the WCRR?????? I lived in Pennsylvania for 25 years I thought I hit all the tourist RRs.

Does anyone else thing Atlas won?

I was waiting for this catalog before ordering from either Lionel or Atlas. The Atlas Models are cheaper and in many cases higher quality. Thoughts?

See the attached PDF. I took the prices from Mr Muffin on a number of items that were practically the same model between Atlas 21/22 and Lionel 2022. Also, the 2021 C2 from Lionel had more favorable prices. The Genesis went up by $90?

@TheRambles posted:

Does anyone else thing Atlas won?

I was waiting for this catalog before ordering from either Lionel or Atlas. The Atlas Models are cheaper and in many cases higher quality. Thoughts?

See the attached PDF. I took the prices from Mr Muffin on a number of items that were practically the same model between Atlas 21/22 and Lionel 2022. Also, the 2021 C2 from Lionel had more favorable prices. The Genesis went up by $90?

Atlas O 30138032 - Premier - F40PH Diesel Locomotive "Amtrak" Phase IV #404	Lionel L-2233722 - F40PH Amtrak # Phase IV
$ 557.96	$ 566.99
Atlas O 3007093 - Premier - Amfleet Passenger Car "Amtrak" Phase V $ 112.46 Ea.	Lionel L-2227330 - Amtrak Amfleet Phase V Coach two-Pack $ 327.99 ($164.00 ea.)
Reading F7's $989.92 for 2	Lehigh Valley LEGACY F7 AA Set #562, #566 $ 1,079.99
Atlas O 3007033B - Horizon Passenger Car "Amtrak" #54041 $ 134.96 ea	Lionel L-2227270 - F40PH Amtrak Phase III 21" Passenger 2-Pack $368.99 ($184.50 ea)
Atlas O 30138045 - Premier - P-42 Genesis Diesel Locomotive "Amtrak" Phase V #173 $ 557.96 (scale)	Lionel L-2234010 - Genesis Amtrak #100 $ 494.99 (traditional) 2021 2I $404.99
LIONEL 2227050 - 2000S WOOD COACH "STRASBURG" #1 (2-CAR) SET 1 $ 359.99	LIONEL L-2227440 - NEW YORK CENTRAL COMBINE/COACH 2-PACK $ 368.99

Atlas has some nice scale rolling stock to fill in the gaps in my pursuit of Canadian and New England road names that Lionel isn’t covering. As for comparing Lionel locomotives and Atlas locomotives, it’s apples to oranges. I think the technology of the Lionel locomotives justifies the higher cost over a comparable Atlas locomotive.

Checking out the Vision Horse Cars ($369.99-ouch), I may consider the Pennsy.  The real horse cars had three doors, and Sunset did a great brass one but it rarely shows up and when it does it goes for over $500.

I hope the car number for the Pennsy car in the photo is a typo.  It should be 5824, not 5024.  The other markings look good.

I'm interested in the Downeaster Cabbage but am astounded at the $500 price tag. I'll probably pass on this...

There are a lot of things I'm considering at the moment.

Realistically? Either a conrail RS-27, the Maersk SD40-2, CP #6444 or #7022
Hopefully? The B&A berkshire or the Santa Fe 5001 Texas

Absolutely nonsensical? N&W 1218

aside from engines, I definitely want a Base3

@Madockawando posted:

Three catalogs ago I was where you are now.

With this and the last two catalogs I have surrendered to scale. Why? I can still run a wide variety of scale locomotives with O-36 and there are a ton of options for scale  freight cars out there for your O-36 scale locomotives to pull behind them. And you do NOT need to become a rivet counter to enjoy scale locomotives and rolling stock. Run what you want with as crazy of a mixed up consist as you want. You can embrace fantasy and scale at the same time.

Give it some thought!!

Just switch to S gauge.  Traditional American Flyer is all they'll produce.   Seems - logically - from a size standpoint - it'd make sense to do the reverse.

@N&WGuy posted:

A great catalog, but so far I’m just gonna be preordering a few things: The Vision Line N&W A Class #1210, the Reading & Northern F9 AB set, and the Base3 unit!

Anyone know if that new Norfolk and Southern (2231520) Visionline A will have a swinging bell?

Not LionelLLC (Stu R) and I were discussing this set, which is a photoshop nightmare. Note the track is 2 rail, the boxcar is American Flyer S gauge and the remaining cars are Lionel O gauge.

@Robert Cushman posted:

Anyone know if that new Norfolk and Southern (2231520) Visionline A will have a swinging bell?

The unpainted Pilot version? The Norfolk & Western A’s didn’t have swinging bells, they were operated by an air pressure system I think. None of the Vision Line A’s will have a swinging bell feature on them…