Virtual Railfan catches another one at Santa Fe JCT.
One of these cars isn't going home tonight...
---PCJ
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Wow! That third car got mangled. Hopefully I won't experience something like that in a model context.
Love the guy clearing the parking lot - "Not my problem" 
@dorfj2 posted:Love the guy clearing the parking lot - "Not my problem"
Seconded. 
The elevated upright girder was definitely over built! Can't get over it how it stood strong in slicing the center beam down the middle. The girder might need some repair but the upper R.O.W. did not fall. Thankfully no fire.,
Bad idea to stick two long, lightweight cars in the middle of a consist. Likely the train was slowing down and the front and rear portions forced the flatcars to jack knife out.
That one was a good one.
@dorfj2 posted:Love the guy clearing the parking lot - "Not my problem"
What if there was hazardous chemicals in those tank cars and there was a big boom
I wouldn't go about my business that near a wreck as nothing was happening.
That bobcat drift was awesome!
I just got through plowing snow with my own tractor, and I have these observations. The Bobcat driver wouldn't hear the train wreck over his own engine noise. If the driver was concentrating on what he was doing with his bucket, he probably would never look in the direction of the train ( until a tank car exploded 
We have been running trains in this country for 150 years. Is it too much to expect a much smaller percentage of derailments? Pathetic.
@mark s posted:We have been running trains in this country for 150 years. Is it too much to expect a much smaller percentage of derailments? Pathetic.
True, but now there are VERY FEW "real railroaders" remaining in the current class 1s. As a result, they seem to be making up train consists with loaded cars on the rear and empty cars forward, which is generally a recipe for a derailment.
dont you just hate it when that happens
@mark s posted:We have been running trains in this country for 150 years. Is it too much to expect a much smaller percentage of derailments? Pathetic.
Mark, reducing derailments is always a goal for railroads. My belief is that we do not have a large number of derailments based on car miles or even train miles*. I will guarantee that we have far fewer derailments based on car miles, than we did 25 years ago.
What we do have is more reporting of derailments due to social media and surveillance cameras. This may lead us to assume that derailments are a bigger part of train operations than they actually are.
Railroads have been under more rigorous requirements in recent years, to accurately report in detail, all "reportable derailments," i.e., derailments that include hazmat release, evacuation, employee injuries, passenger train injuries, or which meet a certain dollar threshold. Those must be reported in a timely manner to the Federal Railroad Administration. The derailment in the video might not qualify, due to low value cars being involved (unless the tank cars were placarded and leakage occurred) no injuries, etc.
On the non-reportable side, though, railroads have trained Officials to do a better job of investigating even minor derailments, in order to address the root cause and contributing cause(es) on every derailment, including those in industry tracks, so that measures may be undertaken to reduce the likelihood of similar future derailments. To put it another way, they don't just pick up the derailed equipment, slap the track back together, and go back to running trains. Statistics are kept, to identify trends. The accident report that I had to furnish after every derailment, even one wheel, was four pages of information, covering everything from track gauge, cross level, wheel condition, rail condition, tie and spike condition, train handling, train makeup, speed, curvature, switch condition, wayside detector reports, etc.
On railroads like UPRR and BNSF, there are train makeup rules published right in the employee timetable System Special Rules section, to prevent long car/short car interaction or empties being entrained ahead of a certain amount of tonnage from occurring and potentially becoming derailment causes. Crews picking up and setting out cars en route must check their train makeup after each pickup or setout, and not depart if no longer in compliance. The train list also includes a bar graph showing the tonnage distribution throughout the train.
Despite this, derailments still occur, and the goal is to reduce them to zero.
* Both car miles -- the more useful of the two -- and train miles must be used as factors, because they tell different things. Train miles tells whether longer trains are creating undesirable conditions and increasing or decreasing derailments out of proportion to car miles.
I think this a cool video. Not everyday you get to see a derailment as it happens.
Well, I would be most encouraged if we are, in fact, experiencing fewer derailents, employing whatever metric. Now, might anyone know how railroad derailments/accidents compare with truck accidents?
To Hot Water's point, unfortunately railroads fire employeees, along with all the training they have received, before they can mature into "real railroaders". Of course, railroads are not alone in their crummy treatment of employees these days.
That's some carnage! I wonder if they were slowing down through a bend and the moment of the remaining train just pushed the car off.
@mark s posted:To Hot Water's point, unfortunately railroads fire employeees, along with all the training they have received, before they can mature into "real railroaders".
Sometimes they do. However progressive discipline is used by all railroads, because the Railway Labor Act comprehensively governs carrier-employee relations, including unjust dismissal, and providing for the employee to appeal any unjust discipline. Usually, the Railway Labor Board sides with the employee.
If employees comply with train makeup rules (including hazmat car placement), make all required air brake tests and inspections, and operate the train properly, they cannot be dismissed over a derailment. Employees used to need good railroading skills to successfully work, because the number of rules was limited and the number of processes was zero. Today, there are many rules and processes, designed to reduce individuality and make it possible to measure employee performance at whatever their job is. But there are still some skills needed, and once in a while, somebody is hired and -- after opportunities to improve -- it becomes obvious that the employee is just not suited for railroad work (evidenced by progressive discipline) and the employee is finally dismissed, for the safety of everybody.
Most dismissals result from voluntary violation of rules by the employee. A lesser portion result from an unintentional but serious rule violation. I fired a few employees for drugs and alcohol use. I fired a couple of employees for gross attendance issues. I fired a crew for speeding through a slow order, causing a large derailment, and then lying about it. The Railway Labor Board reinstated the crew without lost pay a year later, which was reasonable. I issued a few suspensions of 30 to 60 days for train order, track warrant, and block signal violations, as well as excessive speed. In 22 years, that is not a lot of discipline. Every railroad employee has an opinion about discipline, usually based on what they have heard versus the whole story, which would probably modify their opinion. When I moved to management from a craft, and gained access to personal record files, I was surprised to find out that some people I enjoyed working with had incurred numerous injuries and had been disciplined for good cause on numerous occasions.
Attendance discipline should be viewed separately. Right now, attendance policies are a hot button issue. Recent attendance policy revisions on several railroads have greatly reduced employees' opportunities to take reasonable time off, making it very difficult to comply fully and have any kind of life away from work. It seems to be heading toward resolution by the Railway Labor Board, and I am siding with the employees. There may be some dismissals because of these recent policy decisions by railroads, but, unless an employee is egregiously helping himself to excessive time off, the Board will almost certainly take the employees' side, and with back pay for time out of service.
I feel that there is a lot more going on here that we are not seeing that needs to be taken into consideration before you arm chair railroaders go blaming the center beam flat car.
What is on the leading end of the movement? It appears to me that the slack is fully bunched in the train, so, that would rule out stringlining. Other than the very loud bang near the beginning of the video, I never heard or saw any evidence of an emergency brake application. What is going on off screen to the left at the rear of the movement? So, what forces throughout the train are affecting the movement? Why did all of the cars from the third flat back continue around the curve? Etc., etc.
I have no idea how many trains I handled over the road and in the yards, with empty center beam flat cars scattered near and far throughout the train and I never had a problem with them. As a matter of fact, if there was a bulkhead flat car in the consist, I was hoping that it was a center beam flat because they did not have a speed restriction like a plain bulkhead flat had.
So, wait, get all of the information before you go making assumptions about something you know very little about.
Yes, we should wait for the professional investigators to finish. But, given the curvature and the lightness of empty centerbeam cars it sure looks like reverse stringlining to me. That is the brakes of the following tank cars were not set sufficiently. Even bullhead flats have a real under frame but the light as can be center frame/beam for these cars is different. They even have to be loaded and unloaded in a specific order or they will tip over they are so light.
It certainly does look like (speculating...) that the front end of the train was slowing down coming out of the curve and the load behind the centerbeam cars had enough momentum that the sandwich forces on the much lighter centerbeams 'compressed' them off the rails. Look at how much the momentum continued to push the centerbeams after they had decoupled from the front of the train and hit the ground. Even when the centerbeams stopped, the tank cars continued to push (or be pushed from behind) resulting in two of them coming off the tracks.
I too thought the four-wheel drift of the front loader was pretty cool - the person driving didn't seem to be surprised...
@Hot Water posted:True, but now there are VERY FEW "real railroaders" remaining in the current class 1s. As a result, they seem to be making up train consists with loaded cars on the rear and empty cars forward, which is generally a recipe for a derailment.
That, and the trains are so long, even with empties at the end like they should be, there are so many that the first few still get tugged around like rag dolls.
@rdunniii posted:Yes, we should wait for the professional investigators to finish. But, given the curvature and the lightness of empty centerbeam cars it sure looks like reverse stringlining to me. That is the brakes of the following tank cars were not set sufficiently. Even bullhead flats have a real under frame but the light as can be center frame/beam for these cars is different. They even have to be loaded and unloaded in a specific order or they will tip over they are so light.
Your statements are at best unclear. Note that these centerbeam bulkhead flat cars have a light weight of around 32 tons. So, they are not light! The centerbeam would make it slightly heavier than a normal bulkhead flat. They are heavier than today's coal hoppers and weigh almost as much as the covered hopper in front of it! As can be seen, they do have a centersill running the length of the car, so, I don't understand what you are trying to say. Back when pulpwood flats were loaded from both sides, they too had to be loaded/unloaded so they would not tip. So, your point is lost.
Watch it in detail and the cleanup
Surprised no one has yet mentioned the loud "boom" that happens at 0:11 in the original video; sounds a bit loud for slack action, but something seemed to be awry way before the main event happened...
That video of the cleanup was interesting!
The cause of the derailment has been determined:
Mitch
@M. Mitchell Marmel posted:The cause of the derailment has been determined:
Mitch
The cars came off the track at the point the centerbeam crossed from tinplate to FasTrack!
@PRRrat posted:Surprised no one has yet mentioned the loud "boom" that happens at 0:11 in the original video; sounds a bit loud for slack action, but something seemed to be awry way before the main event happened...
Actually I did mention the big bang. However, it sounds to me like it occurred very close to the camera. So, close infact that it may have come from the Bobcat removing snow and is not relatable to the derailment all.
Hasn't anybody considered the derailment may have been caused by a simple mechanical defect like a broken wheel or truck?
Rusty
That "Big Hook" is awesome! I can see why wreck derricks are obsolete. Can you imagine how long the clean-up would take with a couple of steam wreckers? These guys are real professionals. I realize it was time-lapse video, but they were very efficient.
Tom
