Chan's in SF going out of business.

hello S1000RRRACER.............

I visited that place few times years ago, wondering why they going out of business ? I know for sure that some of their prices on items are high.

 

Tiffany

I suspect that the shops that never got online to sell are the ones fading out. I bought 4 Pennsylvania locomotives that I know would have been sold quickly online. The marked prices were a little steep.

They had a lot of older unsold stuff and wanted full price. Some of their paint and glue was so old it was dried up. I'm sorry they are closing but they are not the friendlies folks in the hobby business. I think they were the last train store in San Francisco. Don

Sadness - I live only a few blocks away and I will miss having a place to go for supplies.  But I never understood how they stayed in business so long.

A few years ago they had a new Railking Daylight PA set on display for $80 over MSRP.  I offered to buy it at MSRP - no dice.

Phil Chans prices were above high and his personality stunk,I do miss Franciscian on Ocean Ave.There is still Just Trains in Concord,good people.

Mikey

I went there once about 30 years ago and didn't buy anything. A long narrow crowded store as I recall. I think they screened people with a security camera before they let you in?

Bought my SD18's (powered and dummy) at Chan's in 1980. Saved up a long time for them. They have given may good years of service and lots of miles on them. 

Ace posted:

I went there once about 30 years ago and didn't buy anything. A long narrow crowded store as I recall. I think they screened people with a security camera before they let you in?

The door was always locked. When I lived in SF and went there the door was glass. Essentially walked up to the door, either knocked or rang the bell, and an employee took a look and buzzed in. I don't know why it was like that. The shop was in what seemed to be a good neighborhood on the north end of Van Ness Ave. 

I visited when in SanFran about 10 years ago.   They seemed suspicious and checked me out.   Prices were high then.   The shop had an interesting character - looked like they had been around for many years.

The suspicion doesn't surprise me. I once tried to get change for a $20 bill in that area in 1981 and the store wouldn't take it. I even tried to buy $3-$4 worth of stuff and they still wouldn't take it. I thought I didn't have enough for a bus ticket to the airport. I had just dropped my car off in Oakland for shipping to Hawaii and took Bart over to the closest San Francisco station. Someone offered to pay for the bus, but it turned out I had just enough. Very strange experience.

Two issues:

1.  I do NOT mind being buzzed into a store.  Considering a store has a lot of small items one could walk off with without paying......Or panhandlers.........Or a group of kids who think this is a playground.......

2.  BUT, once one is in, service should be great!

High rent could have gotten to them!

I don't live nearby so can't visit, but read the Yelp reviews.   Lots of one and two star reviews mention lousy customer service, especially the attitude of the older gentleman (owner?).   

 

After reading those reviews, I don't think this store is a loss to the o-gauge hobby.

1.  I do NOT mind being buzzed into a store.  Considering a store has a lot of small items one could walk off with without paying......Or panhandlers.........Or a group of kids who think this is a playground.......

But what about "Growing the hobby"?

I was just there 6 months ago. Wanted to buy a locomotive. Couldn't tell me the price and said to call back in two days to find out the price. No thanks, I'll just find it somewhere else. Stock was old, prices high, service horrible.

The only places I liked in the Bay area when I lived there were Just Trains way out in Concord and Loco-Boose in Redwood City which just closed last year.

Hi All! I'm new to the forum, and just saw this. I didn't know Loco-Boose closed down, too bad, I've been to Chan's a very long time ago, got my Lionel Amtrak F3's there. I'm in Tracy CA. I'll make a run down there tomorrow and see what they still have, Thanks!

On the East Coast - made a point of visiting Chan's when in San Fran a decade ago.  Prices were high, but it was a pleasure to visit a shop with a nice variety of items.  Reminded me of the train dep't in Mitchell's here in Delaware, which closed several years ago.  On-line trains are nice, but it is important to support brick-and-mortar stores, or they will all disappear.

My San Francisco favorite train shops from many visits made a number of years ago: Trains-R-Us was my absolute favorite...a beautiful store and well stocked with all scales (now long gone). Bills Terminal on Market St. was also a very decent place. Also dropped some dollars at Franciscan Hobbies and at Chans. When I visited the city (still my favorite U.S. city), I paid a visit to each of those places. No real bargains to be had at any of those places, but there generally aren't many bargain prices to be had anywhere up and down the west coast.

Allan Miller posted:

My San Francisco favorite train shops from many visits made a number of years ago: Trains-R-Us was my absolute favorite...a beautiful store and well stocked with all scales (now long gone). Bills Terminal on Market St. was also a very decent place. Also dropped some dollars at Franciscan Hobbies and at Chans. When I visited the city (still my favorite U.S. city), I paid a visit to each of those places. No real bargains to be had at any of those places, but there generally aren't many bargain prices to be had anywhere up and down the west coast.

Boy, is that the truth, Allan. Stores out here only  charge full MSRP if you are lucky. And (at least in L.A.) people pay it. The price you pay for all the great weather, I guess! But at least you get good, friendly  service where I go. I think the pricing has to do with very high real estate prices and operating costs, for the most part.

I only visited Chan's once and that was a very long time ago.   Parking in the vicinity of the shop was a real problem.

NH Joe

 

Bill's Terminal...now there is a nice memory spark....spent hours in their shop as they were a delight to visit with.  Also use to take the street car out to Franciscan's (they stocked a wide range of modeling interests...boats and planes as well as trains).  And I did buy a lot of n scale from Trains-R-Us.

Allan

We visited Chans once back in 1998.  I really don't remember much about the store, but I picked up a four car HO Athern BART commuter train kit (I was in the twilight of my HO interests then, before returning to "O") .  All over town back then were these souvenir cable cars.  They were a bit large for O gauge but Chans had a few that he motorized with a power truck, and I bought one of those too.

In spite of their problems, it's always a shame to see a hobby shop close.

Tiffany posted:

...  I know for sure that some of their prices on items are high.  ...

Professor Chaos posted:

...  But I never understood how they stayed in business so long.

A few years ago they had a new Railking Daylight PA set on display for $80 over MSRP.  I offered to buy it at MSRP - no dice.

Allan Miller posted:

... No real bargains to be had at any of those places, but there generally aren't many bargain prices to be had anywhere up and down the west coast.

This seems to be a common theme about west coast model train shops.  How/why do they survive at MSRP pricing???  

I'm all for supporting a local train shop.  But when the delta between typical street-prices back East (and the Midwest too) vs. MSRP is so huge nowadays, I can't see leaving all that money on the table.  What is the value proposition of such a business model, when there are more cost-effective alternatives out there?

The Public Delivery Track seems to be the lone exception to the MSRP-pricing of West Coast train dealerships, but Beth also had a strong presence back East for many years (which probably gave her a good reality check of where competitive prices needed to be).

David

Yes, we Westies suffer when it comes to train stores.

Lee's Train Service in Oakland was one of the best Train stores in the East Bay, but they retired and closed shop.  If you want a great selection, service, and discount pricing the best store in Northern California is Western Depot in Yuba City.  About a 2 hour drive from the SF Bay Area they have a large selection of MTH, Lionel, and K line O gauge. They also offer a lay-a-way plan.

 

I saw Western Depot on Google. Both times I had time were on a Monday. Western depot is open only a limited number of days per a week for a limited number of hours. A visit there didn't work out. Maybe next time I am out this way.

There was also a store in Roseville, Ca that I could have visited but couldn't find much online info...I wasn't sure if it was worth the trip out there....

Roseville store is called Railroad Hobbies.

It is a nice large and clean store across from the large Roseville UP yards.

I get there about once a year, and try to buy something I don't already have.

Beth at the Public Delivery Track does not have a Brick and Mortar store,she is a warehouse operation and one of the best.

Mikey

New Haven Joe posted:

I only visited Chan's once and that was a very long time ago.   Parking in the vicinity of the shop was a real problem.

NH Joe

 

The only problem with parking  was there wasn't ANY !!!

I agree with Allan, I spent hours and hours in Bill's. You could get good deal if they knew you. I did a lot of trading of trains there. I did airbrushed engines for Trains-are-Us. Mostly Southern Paciric. Took my pay in new trains. Bill's was a real Lionel/American Flyer train store. Sad to see all of them gone. "Doll houses trains and more" is north of San Francisco in Novato. They still have lots of "O" gauge trains but their prices are high even on the older new stuff. Worth a look see though. Don

Looks like from the above comments, theres no great loss in losing this place.....I still can't get over paying over msrp prices....

mikey posted:

Phil Chans prices were above high and his personality stunk,I do miss Franciscian on Ocean Ave.There is still Just Trains in Concord,good people.

Mikey

They were victims of  the law of supply and demand.  Poor service was in good supply but the demand was weak.

Went to Chan's finally a few weeks ago, called first to ask about a few things before I made the drive through the city- what an attitude. Didn't get better when I go there, and had a hill to get to them from where I was able to find street parking.   Even at their then 40% off prices on Standard Gauge pieces they were way over evilBay  pricings.

Have gone many times to Dollhouses Trains and More in Novato for Woodland Scenics products, and other related items-always have a good experience.

I have absolutely no first-hand knowledge whatsoever regarding Chan's. 

But generally speaking regarding places that sell strictly at MSRP (or greater)...  It's likely we may never know ALL the why's and wherefore's that make places like these tick.  I'm convinced some of these shops have toy/model trains as a "side business", while another completely unrelated business pays all the bills.     Lots of "mom-and-pop" hardware stores as well as auto parts and tire stores quite commonly had a toy train "department" back in the Lionel post-war heydays.  Some still do to this very day.

Sometimes the shop manager owns a multi-use building, which brings in rental income aside from the owner's "main business".  Or perhaps renting out different apartments or suites IS his main business.  In other cases, an owner may own the building free and clear, live above the store, and the train business is more of a pastime rather than a big money-maker.  In any event, the train business never needs to stand on it's own.  So that business lives in a world completely devoid of reality.  And these guys are happy to hold inventory UNTIL every other shop in the country sells through their stock -- at which time an enthusiast is forced to buy from guys selling strictly at MSRP or greater.  Of course, nowadays folks also have easy-access to the secondary market via eBay and online forums (like this one), so the "forced to finally buy from me at MSRP" strategy doesn't represent the same fait accompli  as it once did.

David

I was just there over Christmas. Not really that surprised. He and an employee were quite depressed about life and current politics in general.

 

Berkeley Hardware store used to have a large model train department in the basement - when I saw it 30 years ago.

This was the last train store left in San Francisco. This is sad day and it has to do with the price of real estate in San Francisco more than anything else. Landlords continue to raise rents and small businesses cannot afford those high rents. This in part explains why Chan's prices may have been high.  Franciscan Hobbies was a victim of this a few years ago because the landlord raised the rent. The house I grew up in San Francisco, where I ran Lionel and Marklin trains, is valued at now valued at $3.5 million. As a native San Franciscan, I hardly recognize the city I grew up in. The  real estate boom is directly associated with Hi Tech company employees buying up the available real estate and paying thousands of dollars over the asking price to secure the property. The native San Franciscan is an extinct species as is now the San Francisco train store. 

Trains R Us, King Normans, Franciscan Hobbies and Bill's Terminal were wonderful places to visit with my father and grandfather. In the end nothing remains forever except our memories. So I still have those wonderful memories of seeing Lionel display layouts at Macy's and the Emporium in downtown San Francisco and near our home at the Emporium in the Stonestown Shopping Center in Sunset District of San Francisco.

I now live 17 mile south of San Francisco would visit Chan's on occasion after Franciscan Hobbies closed just to hang on to the memories.   It was nice to see Chan's kept the spirit alive as long as they did. I now have to drive a little further to Just Trains in Concord. Great store and wonderful staff.

I've been to Chan's three times over the years when I was in SF and staying downtown. As noted earlier, prices were high but, I still ended up with about a dozen cars I couldn't live without. Curt

I visited Chan's many times in the 1980's,  made some terrific purchases, and was treated with respect.  I am sorry they are going out of business.

Bob

I was there maybe 8 - 9 years ago while in SF on vacation. I remember looking around a bit  but thought prices were on the high end.  Also remember seeing a Lionel Lackawanna aluminum passenger set that had been in the front window so long that the boxes were almost white!