Charles Ro $1899 Lionel Big Boys

I just got my letter from Ro.

 

I think you should check out my thread update. :-)

Knowing dealer cost, the best part of this price war is there's still plenty of downward room to move should the war become more intense.. 

I wonder which brain at Lionel thought such a remarkable spread between MSRP and dealer cost would not set off a pricing fiasco without a MTH type dealer agreement in place that limits discounting?

Bottom line, Because that high end model should never have had a MSRP above 2k, it sadly became a marketing football.

Joe 

"I wonder which brain at Lionel thought such a remarkable spread between MSRP and dealer cost would not set off a pricing fiasco without a MTH type dealer agreement in place that limits discounting?"

My take is different.  This spread between MSRP and dealer cost will benefit the dealers and the consumers because it gives dealers some breathing space.  MTH is famous for its slim margins to dealers, and it has cost them quite a few dealers is my guess.  In this market segment, consumers expect at least a token discount.  If your margin is 20%, you cannot give a 10% discount to your best customers without erasing your profit.

 

It is my understanding that requiring dealers to sell at MSRP was long ago found an illegal restraint of trade in almost all circumstances.  So I'm not sure how MTH could require this, if they did or still do.  I believe Bose gets away with it, probably because no one has ever bothered to take them to court.

 

In the end, the proof will be in sales and dealer/consumer satisfaction.  We'll know more when the new catalog comes out.  If freight cars are $99 and the dealer margin is 40%, nothing much will have changed.  If freight cars are $69 and dealer margin is 40%, things will have improved, IMO.

My take is different too.  Take Bachmann.  Extremely high MSRPs in the dealer cost sheet, with fantastic margins.  Even better when there is a sale to dealers...wink wink.

 

So now go try to sell that conventional engine at an MSRP of $500.  You can't.  You can barely sell it at a decent margin.

 

There is a fine line with controlling cost.

 

In the car example, a manufacture comes out with a new and highly desirable car.  Think Corvette ZR-1, or Z-06,  Ford Cobra, Dodge Viper.  Dealer don't immediately discount it, instead the try to get more than there allocation so they can mark them up and make a greater profit.

 

At some point there needs to be some price stability.  Helps the manufacturer, the dealer and the consumer because value is held up.  Think Harley Davidson.  G 

My personal opinion, Lionel is not long for this world.

I doubt that Eddie. I'm pretty sure that they will outlast me, and many others too. 

Pay it no mind; Eddie's been predicting Lionel's demise for years.

I guess your right, John

Im getting mine for 1740. My dealer buys from a supplier so their both still making money off the 1740.

Wow that $160 better than any of the sponsors!  Here we go again!

Now we're talking some serious interest -- even for someone who's moving solidly into Standard Gauge these days.  

 

That's about what I spent on a JLC challenger back when they first came out YEARS ago. I'm telling you folks... We haven't seen the dust settle yet with these Big Boys!  

 

David 

It's kinda of like poking each other with a stick.  LOL!

 no one asks....So who is the dealer?

 

rat

how about 2 for an even 3k

I know someone who knows someone who has a 63 split window corvette for sale. It seems they put this car in a barn in 1964 and never used it since. They're only asking what they paid for the car.

 

rat

Yeah, know how that works.

Saw a 2014 yesterday, quite the upgrade. Like going from a push toy to Legacy!

I tried to get someone to pay me to get one earlier this morning.  I figured it was trending that way anyways.

$1,500.00 seems fair

 

Gunny

wouldn't that depend on what his definition is of "making money"?  Just asking.

 

rat

As a consumer, the MSRP really doesn't mean much to me. It's what I have to actually pay that I am the most interested in. I don't prefer one brand to the other, I like Atlas, Lionel and MTH (maybe others, but don't have any yet). I haven't been at it very long, and have had very little trouble with any of the train manufacturers products. I think Lionel has the best sound, other than that they are pretty much equal to me. I only have modern diesels, no steam. I have DCS and Legacy has been ordered for a few months, hope to have it soon. I try to buy everything at my LHS.

 

If MTH has a Premier diesel for $459 MSRP and my LHS gives me a 10% discount for pre-ordering I pay $413. Lionel is $529 MSRP, less 10%, I pay $476, a $63 difference. That's still more than MTH's MSRP. I said I like Lionel sound better, so $63 is possibly worth that to me for some engines, plus I like to have a few items from each manufacturer for some variety and to be able to compare them, all part of the fun.

 

Now, Lionel ups the MSRP say 10% (or about $53) so they can give dealers more room (can't see them lowering their dealer prices and reducing their take though). So my LHS gives me a 15% discount on Lionel, still 10% on MTH. Now we have MTH at $413 and Lionel at $494, an $81 difference plus taxes are going up too, making it even more of a gap. They would have to go to almost a 20% discount to get back to where they started (but they have probably raised the dealers cost slightly as well, so he can't do the near 20% discount required). However they do it, better sound and variety is all of a sudden becoming less attractive to me now.

 

The whole idea doesn't sound good to me, but I'm just a consumer not a marketing person. My thinking would be to put the new VL BB MSRP at about $2,199-$2,299 with the 10%-15% discounts to get where we are now? If I were buying one, I wouldn't feel any different about getting a $300 discount or an $800 discount, it would be the actual out of pocket money that I would be concerned about.

 

What is the point in making the MSRP artificially high and then cutting it right back down to where it would have been if set to a more reasonable value originally? I just don't get it?  Just my 2 cents here, and maybe not even worth that much?

Resale price maintenance was indeed per se illegal for a long time, but recent decisions of the Supreme Court have held that such practices violate the Sherman Act only to the extent the harm to competition outweighs the possible benefits - like supporting a dealer network.

Wow that's nice.. I guess I better start shopping 

 

That 1740 PRICE IS BELOW WHAT MY LOCAL LHS pays his distributor for the VL BB.

E-mail me the details.  My e-mail address is in my profile.  Thank you.

 

 

Yeah, I know how this story goes also...BTW, I laughed hard because it was what I was thinking!

Hi all.  Im new to the site. Im surprised on the replies of the notion i might be bs ing.  I hope this isnt that kind of bash site like a lot of other forums.  I love this great hobby and hope to meet some friends here along the way.  It stinks that i have to defend myself but i will. As soon as i get bb delivered i will post invoice.  But i say to you as my oath as a former marine, 1740 is what im getting it for.  Once paid i will email, post or whatever else to prove the price.  Please by no means was it my intent to put that price up there to be like look look what i got it for. I was just letting the group know what my dealer said catalog price was and what price he would sell it to me.  Anyway thats it.  Happy running.

Blackout

Wholesale trains has it listed at 1883.71  

I want a bundle it deal

It would be nice if you would share the source/seller.

 

Thx

 

Alex

I think many fictional prices will be posted before the dust settles.  The clue is that it's a "mystery" source.

 

I'm not a mystery source.. Doesn't matter if the guy bought it at $1740.

Want to know whats not a mystery?  That dealer still made money at that price.

My dealer has it at $1840 out the door for local customers and no, they don't do M/O.

Joe.  

 

I, too, received my letter from Charles Ro earlier this week.  But to be honest, any hobby shop that wants my business will offer the BB at the lowest price possible.  If Ro can't match it, I will gladly cancel my order with them and go elsewhere.  They want my business, I want their best offer.  It's a give and take transaction.  If shops keep on lowering the sale price in a all-out price war, I don't think any of us would object.  If they want us to stay interested in the hobby, then they need to have prices that everyday folks can afford and not just aimed at people with disposable income.

 

Meh, save it for the next " Hobby shop is closing" thread. I'm sure if they brought the manufacturing back to the States,  then we would all gladly pay full price

 

I got mine for $1500 from this guy.

 

 

isn't it a mystery source unless we know the place?

 

 

if these places are selling at such a low price why not tell us and we will all go there?

 

 

 

Don't need one.....I'll keep the $$

 

I just wonder how much of a market there is for these expensive Legacy engines that will only run on wide radius track? At high detail brass engine pricing will they sell briskly? I read something in the Lionel catalog that stated that these engines will only be built to order but they probably need to sell a thousand to obtain some economy of scale. IMO there will be leftover stock at favorable prices by fall York.

So please tell us, why are you so reluctant to share any details?  As you say, you're new to the forum.  Maybe you don't understand the spirit of such forums.  It's for sharing information, not coming in and rubbing our noses into your "great deal".

Good gosh, folks.  When does all this fixation on the lowest possible price end?    The next twist to all of this is we'll be hearing that somehow these things will be available thru some "grey market" source WITHOUT a warranty which will shave another $150-$200 off the price.  Would that make you feel better?

 

Seriously, I understand that nobody wants a replay of the Centipede pricing fiasco.  But that was very much an anomaly IMHO.  When do you reach a point where you're happy with what you paid for something, and then just move on?  If you hear somebody else got it for $25 cheaper, are you gonna think about THAT every time you run this beast on your layout rather than just enjoy your purchase? 

 

David