Check everything you buy!

It is a good idea to open all items from all maunfactures to check for damage and or problems.

Unless your a collector that enjoys having them in unoppened boxes.

I blame you more than anything. You should have checked it out upon purchasing. It doesn't take much to open the box and verify everything is as it should. If you want the item in it's box for the rest of it's life in your ownership, than so be it but, IMO, you don't have much of a claim if the item was purchased new in 2009 and you didn't open it until now, well out of warranty period. 

I would agree to a point. If the item is taken out of the box it is no longer mint but would be considered factory new according to the TCA rules.

I wonder if those people who got the recent Lionel S2's with the water damage had not opened the boxes they would really be screwed.

The first thing I do with any "new" locomotive I get is to open it and get it powered on the track ASAP.  Only then will it get put back in the box and stored if need be.  But then I am an operator, not a collector, and everything I get is for running at some point.

That is incorrect:

TCA Grading Standards

The toy train pricing guides published today generally adhere to grading standards established by the Train Collector’s Association (TCA). Those standards are:

C-10 MINT - Brand New all original, unused and unblemished. 
C-9 FACTORY NEW - Brand New all original, unused, may evidence factory rubs and the slightest evidence of handling, shipping and having been test run at the factory. 
C-8 LIKE NEW - Complete all original, no rust, no missing parts, may show effects of being on display and/or age, may have been run. 
C-7 EXCELLENT - all original minute scratches and paint nicks, no rust and no missing parts. No distortion of component parts. 
C-6 VERY GOOD - Minor scratches and paint nicks, minor spots of surface rust, free of dents. May have minor parts replaced. 
C-5 GOOD - Sign of play wear with scratches and minor paint loss. Small dents, minor surface rust. Evidence of heavy use. 
C-4 FAIR - Scratched, moderate paint loss, dented missing parts, surface rust. Evidence of heavy use. 
C-3 POOR - Requires major body repair. Heavily scratched, major rust and missing parts. Restoration candidate. 
C-2  - Restoration required. 
C-1  - Junk, parts value only.

C10 Makes no mention of never having been out of box.

Jerry

I'm not claiming a claim I'm saying youpay good money for items to only find faulty workmanship. Looks like this loco was put together poorly.Was not damage in shipping but was poorly assembled at factory.

I'm not going to wade into a discussion on what is or is not mint!

I usually try and take a look at stuff I buy right after I receive it.  Just because something is new and in a sealed box doesn't mean that it wasn't damaged at the factory!

Broke this rule about checking stuff out with a 3rd Rail E7 that I bought on ebay 5 - 6 months ago when I bought an engine as new, only to find two months later, a broken screw and a missing screw underneath.  Probably didn't come from the factory this way. Put the engine on the track and it runs fine.  I was lucky, as I should have checked it out within 30 days of buying it!

Jim

Douger, I feel your pain.  That's the way I learned to test everything. The same thing happened to me; only the time frame was shorter.  It was a Flyonel engine.  I had no track to test it on at the time of purchase.  The problem it had would not necessarily have shown up by just attaching jumpers.  It was a positional short type of problem in both trucks.

I called Lionel, but the woman rep was not about to budge one bit.  I asked

(politely) to speak to her manager, and was told, very curtly, "he'll tell you the same thing".

Here's the definition I like:

Mint condition means new condition with no wear or damage. An item in this condition may have been removed from it's packaging, which means it is not necessarily Mint In Box. Mint condition items have the same appearance as the day they were finished with no handling or signs of wear.  

But if for any reason you choose not to check an item as soon as possible after you purchase it, you do so at your own risk.  No whining, lamenting, or remorse permitted.

Personally, I don't worry about it.  I generally only buy from people I know and trust, and who will stand by the sale.  Haven't been disappointed yet--aside from one eBay transaction years ago for a Marklin HO engine when I violated my own guidelines about knowing the seller--and that covers many years in this hobby.  Haven't done eBay since then.

Mint in Box really means "Unknown in Box" by definition, unfortunately.  These days, the odds are stacked a little worse percentage-wise I think.

I'll take "opened for inspection" or "test run only" before "never been opened" any day of the week. 

This makes inspection a better proposition as well, as someone with "mint in box" trains often doesn't want to accept the risk themselves, whereas an item that's already been opened has no further stigma by being opened to examine before a sale.

-Dave

The oldest phrase in commerce:  "Caveat emptor", let the buyer beware.  It has not changed since at least the year 1066!  Maybe you didn't watch Rembrandt paint it, but there are standards to have confidence he did.  Not so with the stuff we buy from China today.