Clean/Oil Lionel 627 Switcher

I've got a 627.

 

That's about as simple of a locomotive as you can get.

 

The shell is held on by one screw at one end. Remove the screw, lift that end, and slide the shell off.

 

The motor in the 627 is similar in design to the one depicted early in the "justtrains" article you reference.

 

The "trickiest" part is dealing with the brush springs. I used a piece of thin wire to hold them up out of the brush sockets.

 

Two screws hold the motor on. Just work carefully and methodically, on a stable table, so you don't strain or break the wires.

 

All you need to do is lift the motor cover up to access the commutator, and clean all the grunge off with goo gone and q tips. Remove the brushes and clean those as well.

 

With oil, less is more.

Thanks for the reply.

 

I tried the train on the track but, with 8 attempts, got it to go only once, and that was 3 feet sparking the whole time.

 

So, I've taken the top off and removed the brush plate. From my link I'm going to use Q tips with mineral spirits to clean all of it, both sides, correct?

 

The armature has a lot of oil or whatever on top/surface. So, same procedure for that top I believe? Then after that some 3M 1000 grit sandpaper? That's for the top part, correct.

 

I still have gunk on the wound up copper colored coils. Just I use mineral spirits or goo-gone or just dry to pipe this all off?

Anything I'm missing?

 

Right now my "to buy" list is just the 1000 grit sand paper. I have mineral spirits and regular sand paper.

 

EDIT: actually, the Goo-gone has done a decent job on all the above parts. I didn't find brush springs though, just solid little carbon bushes that push against two "arms"

 

I took some photos if that would be helpful, but it looks like I need an outside host for them?

 

Thank you very much for the advice and suggestions!

 

Clean the gunk off the pick up rollers too.

You can upload photos without a photo hosting site.

Thanks, I found the help with posting photos thread! (I only joined earlier this week)

 

These are before using Goo-Gone, which as I said, helped a good bit.

 

Take the brushes out of the brush plate, clean them with alcohol (isopropyl, not scotch), clean the tubes the brushes go in. Oil the shaft where the brass gear resides, I would use Scotchbrite, instead of sand paper to clean the commutator, which is the copper part on top of the armature. A repair guide for Lionel locos would be very helpful, and add confidence while working on locos. Keep us updated.

In your last photo it shows a white washer around the armature shaft on the commutator.  This is an important part, do not loose it.  You may want to check with a Lionel parts dealer about getting a replacement. The brush springs are the little wire arms that push down on the tops of the brushes. 

IMHO, it's best to replace the brushes when servicing a newly acquired used engine.

Folks have a tendency to over lubricate. The brushes absorb some of the oil. When you clean the brush, the surface oil is removed, but not the oil that is soaked into the brush. After a short time, some of that oil works its way back to the surface, and the motor stops working well.

Also, I notice you still have the field wire connected to the brush plate. I am probably in the minority here, but I usually unsolder the field wire from the brush plate. When the field wire is left attached, I find that the inevitable flexing of the wire will sometimes cause it to break.

Thanks! I've read the responses once and will study them better this evening.

 

For a repair book, any recommendations welcome. I've searched the library and amazon and have a library hold for "Modern Toy Train Repair & Maintenance" by R.D. Teal.

 

I also found: Greensberg's Repair and Operating Manual for Lionel Trains, 1945-1969 but the library doesn't have it. If folks think it's worth it I'll pay the $20 for it.

The Greenberg book is a reprint (in smaller format) of the original Lionel postwar factory service manual. It can also be purchased on DVD, and is also available for free from OLSENS.
IMHO, having a version of the factory service manual is invaluable. I generally prefer handcopy, but I use the Olsens site too.

 

You can look at the Lionel Modern era factory service information on the Lionel web site here . The entire manual can be downloaded section by section from the "product supplements" section. Be aware that the search capabilities do not work well for older modern era equipment.

 

 

Thanks! I tried the Olsen site just now, and earlier this week, and keep getting a parts list only. I'm clicking on Lionel Postwar Locomotives, and then on 627 LV GE 44 Ton Switcher. This is a 2 page parts list only, as far as I can tell.

Lionel did not produce repair information for each individual piece made. The repairman had to know what engines were of similar construction, and use those pages. There weren't even parts lists for some items.
Olsens has created some of their own manual pages to supplement what Lionel provided.

 

I guess I see that is one of the advantages of having printed material. You can leaf through the pages to find something similar. 

Just the goo-gone will be enough to show a major improvement. 95% of the problem is usually just decades of built-up grunge and gook. I bet it runs pretty good now.

 

When my childhood 4-4-2 started acting up recently, I got brave and pulled it apart. It was pretty well worn but also had 33 years of buildup inside the motor. Caked on would be an understatement. All I did was clean it, and it runs a million times better now.

From the pictures, the motor looks a whole lot better than some I have seen.  Work methodically, clean and lightly lube ( if applicable) every part.  Clean the wheels and pick up rollers, and set the e unit so it does not cycle right now.  If you can lock it in forward you can take that out of the equation for now.  Once you have the motor re assembled try it out.  My bet is it will run just fine.  Then, re activate the e unit and see how she runs.  I have found the older locos have many of their problems located here.  Also, for whatever reason, I have found that placing the loco on a circle of track and just letting them run for a bit loosens everything up after 30 minutes or so.  I have no idea why that works but 80% of the time the reluctant loco comes around.  good luck

 

Everyone seems to be focusing on the motor -- which is all to the good.  But the gears need attention, too, and from your photo, they look bone-dry.  If it were my locomotive, I'd get some grease on those gears, PDQ.

 

Thanks! I'm not sure what the e unit is but will google in a minute.

 

So I need grease and oil, correct? For oil I think I've read about using regular motor oil, and I know I've read the less is best, easy to overdue it, etc.

 

I'll need to research the grease, suggestions welcome.

 

Thanks, you all rock!

I noticed in one photo that the motor brushes were still in their tubes when dissassembled.  This is usually a sign that they are not free to move in the tubes in response to spring pressure and armature play.  The brush springs normally push them right out.

 

Be sure to clean the brushes and the inside of the brush tubes before reassembly.

Read the article from Just Trains again. The fellow who wrote the article has a wealth of background and knowledge about Lionel trains.

He makes some lubrication recommendations.

I use Labelle products.

Do not oil any part of the E-unit.

Thanks, I'm reading and trying to find Labelle oil. Is there a preference on which one? I've found 102, 107 and 108 online, all recommended for trains.

 

I also found a train store about 15 the other direction from me, I might call and see if they carry any that I could get this weekend.

 

EDIT: turns out the train box has in what appears to be a complete Life Like All Purpose Maintenance Kit which is probably 15 years old. Would the oil gun and grease gun from that be horrible to use?

Jeremy, if you can't find LaBelle oil, try Castrol Syntec synthetic motor oil. I use 10w40, and have never had a problem with plastics. The Castrol company assured me that the product is compatible with plastics. 

I cannot recommend a specific Labelle oil off the top of my head. I like their light oil for porous bearings, and medium oil elsewhere. For grease I like Labelle #106.
I have some Red N Tacky grease, I use it once in a while. I prefer the Labelle product.

 

I think all the current Labelle oils are plastic compatible. However, some of their older products were not. I still see the older products from time to time. All the non-compatible Labelle product that I have seen was clearly labeled.

 

 I might try the stuff Dennis recommends in his maintenance article. But those products may stain.

Thanks for all the help and for bearing with me on this!

 

I have store that has Labelle products that I'm going to tomorrow after work.

 

I was thinking I need grease and oil. From the graphic on this page http://www.justtrains.com/Service/maint-8.asp I also need Lubricant? So three things?

 

Here's where I'm at:

 

So, I thinking grease goes on the gear in the second photo.

Oil goes on the top of the Brush plate where it says "oil" and there's a small hole.

Lubricant and/or oil in the spots listed on the link above in this thread for the underside.

 

Am I missing anywhere? Thanks so much again, hopefully will have it running at this time tomorrow!

 

Brush things came out easily, I cleaned with goo-gone

 

Grease only for the gear in this photo?

 

Is this the e-unit? If not than where is it?

The grease, I now use Lucas Red & Tacky, goes on the gear you have shown but also should be used to lubricate the gears to the wheels. Oil does go in the "oil" hole but just a small amount, drop or two. A drop of oil at each axle bushing and each pick-up roller too. Looks like this one is well on the way to being a great runner that should bring you many hours of enjoyment.  Forgot to mention, you are correct, that is the E unit.     

quote:

I also need Lubricant? So three things?

 

Grease and oil are lubricants.

Lionel referred to their non-fluid product(grease) as Lubricant. Oil is oil. Only two needed.

 

This 1954 manual was shared a while ago. Pages 51-55 discuss maintenance procedures. it may be helpful for you also.

 

Also, asked already, where are the brush springs?

 

Good advice on removing the field wire - I unsolder all the wires from the brush plate.  I then clean it up with mineral spirits / alcohol and re-assemble.

 

For lubricating the various areas - Red N Tacky (which is also plastic safe) on the gears and Labelle everywhere else.

 

- Luther

Thanks all, especially for the 1954 manual. If it was shared in this thread I missed it previously.

 

The brush springs: in the very first photo at the top I believe the springs are straight and attached to the top of the brush plate? There were no curly springs when I took it apart, I'm sure of that.

 

As for unsoldering, I have no experience with that so I'm thinking one thing at a time. I'll try to get it working without that step for now but keep it in mind.

Jeremy - I admire you patience and staying the course to do it right. The results will certainly be worth your effort!

In this photo you can see the center pickup rollers.  You need to clean the crud off the rollers.  This is important, it is the only connection to the center rail power.

 

 

Are you saying to clean these better? I already used a Qtip and Goo-gone. I could do it again with a scotchbright pad.

 

Those rollers often become pitted and discolored. The dark bands on your rollers may not be dirt.

I used a scotchbright pad on the rollers.

 

I put Labelle 102 on the gears and 107 in the little spot marked oil on the top and on the outside of the axles, as best I could reach.

 

I can move the car on a table now, before I couldn't. However....

 

Without reattaching the plastic cover I tried in on the track. A few sparks from the rollers that touch the track, but that's it. It didn't move at all.

 

Not sure what to check next. I was trying right in from of where the CTC Lockon is attached.

 

Do I check the switcher more or the track/transformer? The train store had a small display, maybe I could try it on theirs.

 

I have an older voltage meter thing, maybe checking the track would be next.

 

Suggestions welcome.

Did you turn the power off and on a few times to cycle the e-unit?

Is the e-unit turned on?

 

You might have a broken wire.

Sometimes the flexible wires running from the e-unit to the brush plate develop breaks. The insulation holds the wire in place, but the conductor itself is broken.

Double check the wiring(right-click, view image for full size):

 

Thanks everyone! I just kept trying and eventually it worked. I just about stopped to say that when the vertical metal piece on the e unit was basically straight up and down nothing happened and when it was to the side the bottom of the e unit would go up, but only rarely would it moved. I kept trying, more to make sure I was explaining what was happening correctly, and then it just started working more and more.

 

I let it run for about 20 minutes. I think it's good. A few sparks still, is that normal?

 

I just have a small oval setup on a dropcloth on carpet. One spot derails it or, near the end, make it immediately change directions. That is, when going clockwise it's fine, but when going counter clockwise it gets to a spot and immediately starts going clockwise. No big deal, will probably get a piece of wood to put on the floor and start goo-goneing some more track to make it bigger.

 

I will surely have more questions about other train issues and will be sure to search first, and if I don't find the answer create a thread for it.

 

Thanks again all!

I've since put the red cover back on...

My little setup at present, the complete opposite of the setups of so many of you....at least the track shines, thanks to lots of elbow grease and some goo-gone!

I recommend ordinary motor oil, as I have 60 years of experience with it.  I use 5W-20 or 10W-30.  Grease, Lionel Lube, WD-40, 3 in 1 oil, light machine oil, etc., all dry out and become hard or gummy.  Motor oil lasts forever.

Recently, I investigated the vapor pressure of motor vs. other lubricants.  Motor oil has a vapor pressure <0.01 mm of Hg (Mercury) at 212 deg F.  For comparison, water has a vapor pressure of 760 mm Hg at 212 F.  Many of the lubricants that have been recommended on the forums do not have published vapor pressures.  This Lucas Red and Tacky and LaBelle products, so I cannot recommend them.  Lithium grease has a vapor pressure more than 100 times higher than motor oil, and so I cannot recommend it.  I have a 2025 loco that was lubed with motor oil in 1965.  When I took it out of the box about 5 years ago, it ran just fine and did not need to be lubed again.  I have bought two locos that had lithium grease in them that was hard.  I had to dig the dried grease out and I lubed them with motor oil, and they are still running fine.  This was about 5 years ago.

 

Make sure that all the bearings and gears are lubricated.  When you are done, you should be able to turn the wheels by hand.  If they don't turn, you either didn't lube something, or the shims that set the end play in the armature are not installed correctly.

Bruce, the vapor pressure at 100° Celsius has little to nothing to do with lubricants used on toy trains.  The Red 'N' Tacky does not evaporate, it is an excellent over-the-road wheel bearing grease too. 

 

Your advice on oils to avoid is excellent, and you are right on on the synthetic motor oil.

The vapor pressure at 100 C or 212 F is an indication of the vapor pressure at room temperature.  In the short time I searched the Internet, I did not find any data that showed the relationship between the vapor pressure at 100 C and the vapor pressure at lower temperatures.  

 

The Red and Tacky MSDS did not have any data about vapor pressure.  The Valvolene chassis grease MSDS only said the evaporation rate was "slow."  This is not enough information for this old engineer.  I am not willing to use any product ona toy train that does not provide me with accurate data.  I have had some of my stuff since the early '50s, and I don't want to have to take it apart frequently to remove dried grease or oil and re-lube it.  Too much like work.  I like to maximize my play time and minimize the time needed for maintenance.  I have about 100 locos, and lubing all of them every year would be way too much work.