Coal for 397 Loader

I have been told by several Lionel dealers that postwar Lionel coal was crushed black bakelite, and just looking at it convinces me that this is true.  I don't know if this helps you on your quest or not, but maybe it will at least suggest some alternatives.

When I was about 14 about 65 years ago I bought a bag of model coal made from smashed up vinyl records. It worked after I smashed the larger pieces smaller.

Dan, I don't have a direct answer to your question about what particular coal works with the 397 coal loader, but will share my experience with Postwar Lionel coal loaders.

As a child I had a 397 coal loader with the coal that came with it, and always had trouble getting the coal to work. It would also get stuck under the red belt and screw things up.

As an adult I got the Postwar 97 coal loader that has always worked like a charm. Here it is:

Arnold D. Cribari posted:

Dan, I don't have a direct answer to your question about what particular coal works with the 397 coal loader, but will share my experience with Postwar Lionel coal loaders.

As a child I had a 397 coal loader with the coal that came with it, and always had trouble getting the coal to work. It would also get stuck under the red belt and screw things up.

As an adult I got the Postwar 97 coal loader that has always worked like a charm. Here it is:

Interesting, Arnold.  I was thinking of replacing the 397 with a 497 that I have.  I think my grandson will get more enjoyment out of it and not get frustrated trying to make the 397 work.  He's ten and has many interests, which doesn't allow for too much tinkering time.  And I don't want him to get discouraged.  

I don't understand why you call it EVIL Bay. You want pre & postwar Lionel coal, buy it on Ebay,  it's cheap, it is what your supposed to use with the 397 & 97 coal elevator.

Just out of curiosity, has anyone ever tried Woodland Scenics (or similar) medium or coarse "Cinders" track ballast?  It's supposedly just crushed walnut shells, painted or dyed black.

The thread below suggested black acquarium gravel or medium blasting abrasives.  Has anyone had success with either?  I’d be interested in finding an alternative as well.

https://ogrforum.com/topic/coal-1

You might want to take a look at Arizona Rock and Mineral Ballast. It is actual rock. Their O scale coal may be actual coal. Check out www.armballast.com

Kevin

rjsmithindy posted:

The thread below suggested black acquarium gravel or medium blasting abrasives.  Has anyone had success with either?  I’d be interested in finding an alternative as well.

https://ogrforum.com/topic/coal-1

 

I think aquarium gravel would be too heavy for a 397 coal loader.

eddie g posted:

I don't understand why you call it EVIL Bay. You want pre & postwar Lionel coal, buy it on Ebay,  it's cheap, it is what your supposed to use with the 397 & 97 coal elevator.

Evilbay is like Big Brother, controlling everything.....LOL.

As for the cost of post-war coal, have a look at these listings;

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vinta...5:g:XGMAAOSwwf1bc-nm

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Dif...sIAAOSwScJa8kGbStill think it's cheap ?

There are some listings for post-war coal that are running in the twenty-five to thirty dollar rage for a single bag.  It's still too much to pay for something that may wind up in the vacuum cleaner.

Then there's this listing;

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lione...1:g:etUAAOSwrklVSX5p

At the BIN price of $390.00 it works out to $1.89/bag.  Now that's cheap.  But I'm not about to spend almost $400.00.  Of course I could buy it all and resell it to make a profit.  Maybe not.....LOL

rjsmithindy posted:

The thread below suggested black acquarium gravel or medium blasting abrasives.  Has anyone had success with either?  I’d be interested in finding an alternative as well.

https://ogrforum.com/topic/coal-1

 

Ha, that's my post from two years ago.....LOL

I've tried to find a video of us using aquarium gravel in the 397. I can tell you that it works pretty well. The Dollar Store had some green/white/black bags of it that seemed a little lighter that I bought and it worked well.

Don, 206 is the Lionel part number for coal. $390 gets you 10 bags of coal. 

At the BIN price of $390.00 it works out to $1.89/bag.  Now that's cheap.  But I'm not about to spend almost $400.00.  Of course I could buy it all and resell it to make a profit.  Maybe not.....LOL

That is 39 dollars a bag. I doubt he'll get any takers. Folks can ask whatever they please.

Doesn't Lionel offer coal any longer?

The only drawback you MIGHT experience with using aquarium gravel for coal is having pieces that are too small. When the pieces are too small they can get underneath the belt and foul the mechanism.  Same goes for the 97 coal elevator.

Kverdon posted:

You might want to take a look at Arizona Rock and Mineral Ballast. It is actual rock. Their O scale coal may be actual coal. Check out www.armballast.com

Kevin

I would not use real coal.  I'm not at home to verify but I beleive the Lionel instruction sheet says not to use real coal.

Bill

How much coal do you need ?? I got rid of my accessories but kept about two bags of original.

Dan, I guess you are right. Usually they are on the bay for about $10. a bag. That guy with the 10 bags started them at $1.000 about 6 months ago. Every month he comes down a little.  I used to have some bags. if i find them, I mail them to you.

Is the # 397 loader the one with the red conveyer belt and red plastic tray that a side dump car unloads into ? If so I had one that always jammed,stuck, or not go up the plastic tray. Then I was told by a Lionel, MTH repairmen to use the MTH coal.  And that fixed it, worked perfect every time

rjsmithindy posted:

The thread below suggested black aquarium gravel or medium blasting abrasives.  Has anyone had success with either?  I’d be interested in finding an alternative as well.

https://ogrforum.com/topic/coal-1

While I have no doubt that aquarium gravel would work, I'd be concerned with long-term wear and abrasion to coal loaders and rolling stock.

You might try a trip to your local Michaels, Hobby Lobby or AC Moore craft's stores or search them on the internet. I know Michaels stocks a pretty good supply of rocks and gravel, some in black, that might suit your needs and I would guess that the others do as well.

I just hooked up mine up last night.  My son begged me to get one for the layout. I have one bag of pw coal.  Told him make sure he doesn't spill any of it lol

I had the coal loader that was the more simple one, the open conveyor belt (the one that had the piece of plastic at the end to make sure the coal deflected down into the hopper car). I used clay cat litter, and some cheap black gloss spray paint I had, to saturate the litter, then made sure to break up any clumps. It worked well for me, and being on a very limited budget as a teenager, it worked pretty well 

We used the charcoal that was used in fish tank filters.  Won't say it worked well but it looked right.

I use black aquarium rock from Petco and has worked well. Now I have to say I use an old TMCC Powermaster to run my 395 loader with variable speed through a Cab1 and that keeps the coal from launching.

C W Burfle posted:

At the BIN price of $390.00 it works out to $1.89/bag.  Now that's cheap.  But I'm not about to spend almost $400.00.  Of course I could buy it all and resell it to make a profit.  Maybe not.....LOL

That is 39 dollars a bag. I doubt he'll get any takers. Folks can ask whatever they please.

Doesn't Lionel offer coal any longer?

The only drawback you MIGHT experience with using aquarium gravel for coal is having pieces that are too small. When the pieces are too small they can get underneath the belt and foul the mechanism.  Same goes for the 97 coal elevator.

Wow, did I have the math wrong.  I read it as 206 bags of coal, figuring he was only showing a sampling.  I guess he figures if he shows it against the wall and it doesn't come back, he's $390.00 richer for something that probably sold for $.25 per bag back in the day.

I have a Postwar 397 coal loader and 3469 dump car on my layout. The dump car came with a bag of Postwar coal. It works pretty good. The only issue is no matter what after running the 397 about 10-12 times a piece or two of coal get under the belt and it stops moving. The trick to fix that is to remove the 397 from the layout, tip it upside down, and stretch the belt a bit. The offending piece/pieces of coal will pop out and the 397 is back to working great again. 

I have found that my 397 likes about 12 volts. It operates smoothest and throws the least amount of coal around at the voltage. 

Hi Dan,

I get these posts on a weekly digest, so just saw this today.  I had the same problem with my vintage 397 coal loader and solved the problem as follows (credit given to sources as noted):

1. First, be sure to cover any openings on the beam with scotch tape or masking tape.  See photo of outside of beam and under the belt.  Read this little tip in "Toy Train Repair Made Easy" by Ray Plummer.

2. I can't locate the thread on this forum, but I'm sure I read over a year ago the recommendation to purchase aquarium gravel at Petco, and a cheap, plastic collander to strain out the small pieces of coal.  I purchased both.  I attached a photo of the collander, and drilled out the bottom holes to the size I wanted as suggested on that thread.   The smaller pieces represent what went through; large pieces are what I use on the 397 without jamming.  Penny added to show reference. 

3.  I would also suggest to replace an old conveyor belt. After I did the above and then had some belt slipping, a new belt solved that problem. 

And BTW, I have several vintage Lionel operating accessories that need constant attention - but the grandkids just love 'em!!   I have fun with them as well despite their weird scale size. 

Hope this helps.

Michael

I just put my old 397 coal loader back into service and while it works pretty well I’ve always wondered about alternatives to the standard Lionel coal. After a search found this thread which as usual offers some great suggestions. 

Question: How about the “coal” that is sold with the coal tipple? These are larger pieces and sort of rounded off like beads. Wondered if anybody has had success using them in the their 397? May also explore the aquarium gravel idea as that’s been mentioned a few times.

https://ogrforum.com/...92#80973530265270992

Nowhere in Lionel does it say "not use real coal".

https://ogrforum.com/...01#81537088189406001

I use the "coal" from the rotary Tipper and I don't have any problems jamming. I have both the 97 and the 397 on my layout. Being so big it's easy to clean up but I don't really care for how it looks.