Connecting Atlas O Switches to the AIU....Houston, we have a problem.....The saga continues....

Wire with whichever the Atlas instructions show.

The TIU is a box of Relays, it does not care if you are switching hot or common.

 

Same goes with the accessories.

 

You could have left one switch manual control and saved the cost of an AIU unless some accessories have more than one operation.

If you don't have it already, here's a wiring diagram from Atlas. It shows power to AIU and Common to center switch terminal.

If you were to add electric automatic non-derail using short section of the outside rail then this works best.

 

 

On the Atlas switch machine, the center terminal is connected to my fixed voltage. The outer terminals will be connected to the curved and straight terminals of the the AIU. The common ground will be connected to the Comm port of the AIU.

 

Typical non-derail wiring with an MTH AIU 

Click on the underlined phrase to link a wiring diagram from the Atlas website.

Thank you everyone....You have all been most helpful.

 

Peter

Been trying to get a Atlas switch to work with the AIU with zero luck

As per instructions in the DCS companion book, I have the center track connector of the switch to the hot side (A post) of a ZW. The two outside track pin wires from the switch to the AIU pins and the the common connected from the AIU IN pin to the U post of a ZW.

Does not work..but I hear the AIU activate when I press the switch in either direction on the DCS controller.. I do not have the Atlas switch control box connected in line.

Anyone know what I am doing wrong?

Joe   

Hi JC642,

 

All though I am currently redesigning my current wiring for my layout, I had the following wired scheme for my Atlas SW and the AIU.

I was using an MTH wire block in front of my Z1000 power brick, I ran a power wires from the center port of the SW to a positive port on the MTH block, I then ran a common wire from the common port of the MTH block to the 'IN' port from the AIU, then the port 1 and 3 of the Atlas SW went to ports 1 and 3 of the AIU. This worked for me all thought my planned wiring eliminates the MTH wire block. What I did not like about this setup was that the wire managemant became unruly. Also the Atlas controller that comes with the Atlas switches was not used. Are you saying that when you activate the remote fro a switch, you hear the click however; the actual switching is not taking place? If so which happend to me, the pin in the motor houseing may be disconnected that is involved when the switch moves straight and left etc.

I followed the instructions and wired all 23 of my Atlas switches.  The fixed voltage to the center post. The ground to the Comm post opf the AIU. I used a Daisy-chain to link the grounds.

 

 

 

 

Unfortunately, I continue to burn out motors. I thought the AIU was a momentary switch......

 

 

 

 

Anyone have any ideas? Trains run fine. No shorts, not a one.....

I'm going to Lowe's to get another fire extinguisher......

 

Peter

Here's another picture. You can see why I'm a little nervous. Manual throws are really looking good!

 

Peter

 

 

According to the DCS O gauge companion (Barry's book) if you have them set up as switches (SW) the switch tracks are activated and then stop the activation after a brief period.  I would read this as being a momentary contact as required by the Atlas switch motor, so it looks like it should work the way you have it? It also looks like you have them wired according the book also?

 

I don't have an AIU so have never tried it. Maybe Barry (or someone else more AIU savvy) will be along with a suggestion? Only thing I can think of is the AIU is getting stuck on somehow, like maybe an accessory output, if that's even possible?

 

I think the Atlas 6924's should stop problem regardless of the AIU, but that's a lot of extra expense and extra wiring for you. However, this is making me really lean toward adding the 6924's to all my switches when I finally get all set up. Was planning to have a few of them anyway, now maybe a few manual switches like you are thinking also.

 

I keep this picture to remind me of the problem.

I believe the problem is: you hold the button on the hand-held remote a little too long and it will cycle the AIU through two or more momentary-es, more than enough to fry the switch motor. That's what happened with my IC Controls ASC's (Accessory Switch Controllers).   Primary purpose of installing the Atlas 6924 relay boards on all my Atlas switches was to inhibiting multiple momentary cycles and switch motor burn-out.
(21)  6924 relay boards operationing (25) Atlas switches. There are (4) paired cross-overs operated by one relay board per pair.

I haven't replace a switch motor since I installed the 6924 relay boards.

6924 Installation with an AIU.

Peter,

 I thought the AIU was a momentary switch......

On the SW ports, all of the relays are NO (normally open) momentary relays. If you listen, you can hear the "clunk...clunk" as the relay fires and then, a moment later releases.

 

The ACC ports, on the other hand, are NO latching relays that can also be set to activate as long as the ACT soft key is depressed.

 

I don't know what an Atlas 6924 costs, however, you could replace the Atlas motors with DZ1000 motors (Z-Stuff) and have no more worries about burning out a motor.

IMO, the Atlas motors are junk.  Not only do the go up in smoke too easily, they are also pretty unreliable, at least the 40 or so we have on our modular layout.  The tortoise switch machines have been bulletproof, and they're being installed as time and expense allows.

 

The other bonus with under-table switch machines is you don't have that ugly housing sticking out of the switch!

 

John,

The other bonus with under-table switch machines is you don't have that ugly housing sticking out of the switch!

DZ1000's are buy no means ugly!  

But under table ones don't have to be pretty!

John,

 

Rest assured, the Tortoise machines are not all attractive. It's good they have enough sense to hide under the table.  

Some of them are downright ugly, no argument there.  However, as I don't have to look at them, and they don't take up any extra layout space, the have a lot to offer.  When they're "under the hood" I don't really care what they look like.

This is kind of scary.   How can the sw ports stick on?   Maybe try hooking up a 20 volt  light bulb to the Atlas switch machine , and try each route, yes you have to move a connection each time. Somethings drastically wrong.

Note the following.
(1.) The 6924 relay boards in addition to inhibiting burn-out also provides the ability for logical power routing through dead spots in switch track circuits.  You would have to add the DZ 1008 relays to DZ 1000's for this function.
(2.) 6924 board installation requires installation of automatic non-derail wiring, which IMO, is much better than the spring-loaded non derail provided by Atlas.
(3.) Atlas 6931 dwarf signals, or other signals, can be added from the relay board.  There are (2) sets of NC/C/NO contacts on the board.

You can get the 6924's for around $18 or so each from the big dealers (about $21 at my LHS).

 

How do the DZ-1000's differ from the Atlas, and why don't they burn out, and how much are they?

 

I know the Tortoise machines are a totally different animal and very reliable, but look difficult to mount and get lined up properly so everything works properly.

 

 

In addition, you could probably keep a stall current on that motor for a lot longer than the Atlas coils.  They will go up in a few seconds!

 

Only problem, the DZ 1000's have is a tendency toward incomplete throws.  Usually as they wear-in, they become less trouble-some.  Some have adjusted throw voltage up, with better results.   They also have switch indication LED lights as a built in feature.

IMO, a matter of which way to go with a problem.  Look at the cost either way.  Complete replacement of switch motors, or the relay boards, part of the hobby, unfortunately.  Mike CT

How do the DZ-1000's differ from the Atlas, and why don't they burn out, and how much are they?

They have a gear-driven motor that cuts off automatically after the switch is thrown. Even if they continued to run, which they don't, there's no magnet to overheat and burn out.

 

They're easy to wire for automatic non-derailing operation and Z-Stuff sells springs made for use with Atlas switch tracks. The only caveat is when used with Atlas switch tracks, they sit a bit higher than the Atlas motors. It's easy to compensate for this by just omitting roadbed under the switch motor.

 

They retail for $26.00, including the DZ1002 push button. The DZ1008 relays, used for adding signals or other such stuff for operation dependent on the switch track's orientation, are $14.15.

 

They're very reelable and also easy to repair if they break, which is rarely.

 

Thanks everyone for your comments. I suspect I'm going to go the DZ1000 route.

 

Peter

Doctor:  There are also the DZ 2500 switch motors, which are TMCC controlled, but you already have an AIU.  Best wishes with your project.

There is a lot of information on the Atlas 6924 relay since it was introduces.   A recent post related to installation, the board is cheaper than the DZ switch and relay.  IMO, not your average model railroad electrical item.

Recent post on how complex the relay boards can be.  They do work and work well, if properly installed per the Atlas diagrams.  Note that track circuit fuse protection, power routing, was added after the 6924 boards were introduced.

 

(Previous post on another thread.)
InputA and InputB  The two short pieces near the frog of the switch are wired via Green and Red wires to InA and InB on the board.

There are two (dead rail sections) on each switch, one straight and one curved)
It requires (3) wires to power these sections, (logically) via the relay.  Note the wire attached to one of the dead rail sections.

From the 6924 relay board to the switch motor requires (3) wires.   Accessory common, Through (Out A) and Out (Out B).
Total wires required Relay board and accessory common to the switch.
(1.) InA    Electric non-derail function.  Input rail to relay board and/or push buttons/ or ASC controller.
(2.) InB    Electric non-derail function.  Input rail to relay board and/or push buttons/ or ASC controller.
(3.) Out A  Relay board to switch motor terminal.
(4.) Out B  Relay board to switch motor terminal.
(5.) Accessory Common  Accessory common near the 6924 relay board to the switch
motor.
Add Power Routing.
(6.) Track power from the switch location back to the relay board.
(7.) Dead rail power Through from the relay board to the appropriate dead rail.
(8.) Dead rail power Out from the relay board to the appropriate dead rail.
Add Power Routing (using two track circuits COM1 and COM2). (Two switches)
(9.) Track power from the switch location back to the relay board
(10.) Dead rail power Through switch position to the appropriate dead rail.
(11.) Dead rail power Out switch position to the appropriate dead rail.
(12.) 6924 board power daisy chained between boards. (2) wires if daisy chained. 
(13.) 6924 board power common daisy chained between boards. (2 wires if daisy chained).
 
Total of (8 or 11) wires between the 6924 relay board and the switch location.

Wiring for the 6931 dwarf lights can be done with the 6931 dwarf light board supplied as part of the dwarf lights.  Connection requires power to the board and connection to the through and out terminals of the switch motor.

 

Depends on whether you are into the wiring part of the hobby. IMO

Peter,

 

Whatever changes you make, go slowly until you are comfortable that it is the proper solution for Your Application. 

 

I have 58 turnouts: 46 Atlas with their original solenoid machine, and 12 RCS with DZ1000's. I have not had a single Atlas machine failure in over two years of operation, but experienced numerous failures with the DZ1000's for about a year, and now occasionally.

 

No, the DZ1000's do not burn up; instead, they fail to throw the points reliably. Sometimes they do not throw all the way, other times they make it all the way but then bounce back. I tried operating them at voltages from 12VAC to 18VAC, and none yielded reliable operation. I settled on 18VAC to operate both the Atlas and the DZ1000's as that was the best; at least in my case.

 

Fortunately, the RCS-DZ1000's malfunctions have not posed a big problem for about the last year or so. The reason is that while the DZ1000's themselves may have not fully advanced to the 'locked' position (the small knob fully to the end of the semicircular groove), the points are close enough not to cause a derailment.

 

I have all the turnouts wired to five AIU's as well as in parallel to center-off, momentary On-On toggle switches on the control panel. Of the 58 turnouts, 22 are wired as crossovers with the two turnouts that comprise the crossover connected in parallel so they can be operated with a single AIU channel or toggle switch.

 

Good luck with the approach you select!

 

Alex

 

PS. In case the year(s) of manufacture make a difference: I bought all my Atlas and RCS (w/DZ1000's) turnouts from Bob Thatcher (AM Hobbies) in 2010.

Thanks for the detailed info on the DZ1000's. Choices are both good and bad! Decisions, decisions...  

 

Edit: Ingenerio No1, are you using any of the 6924's, or just the AIU and momentary toggles?

I've had some lock in one position, just freeze up.  Powering them with the aux voltage output of the Z4000 which I thought was just right because most of them work okay, if exercised on a regular basis.  Some still don't snap cleanly to one position, but bounce back.  Flipping them back and forth will sometimes "snap" them out of it.

Some were fixed by loosening up the mounting screws a little, or by floating the switch.

Returned a few out of 50+ motors on the layout, but once adjusted they can be very reliable.

On most of my 072 Wye Turnout switches, the actuator does not throw all the way in one direction. The track throw bar however does move all the way over. It only happens in one direction and it’s always the same direction on all of the affected switches. When I press the #57 Deluxe Switch Controller, it sounds wimpy only in that direction. Whereas in the other direction, it is sounds sharp and powerful and throws all the way. I double checked all the wiring for shorting/opens and verified that there was nothing underneath the switches causing interference.

 

Have you experienced this problem and if so what is the root cause / remedy?

I decided to build a mock-up to try out my new DZ 1000s.  The Atlas switches seem to use the Ross Switch clip better than the Gargraves clip. 

I needed to dig out a 3" portion of the RossBed so that the switch machine sits a little bit lower.

Here are some pics:

 

 

 

I will 1st install all of them on the switches and then wire them to the AIUs.

 

Peter

As an aside....

 

I run my Atlas switch machines on 20V DC power instead of AC.   They seem much more reliable and I haven't had a machine burn out yet.

 

I use an old Aurora Slot car DC Power supply, but any DC power back would work fine.   A computer accessory wall wart would work just fine.   Just check the Voltage and that its' output is 16-20V DC.

 

Running them on DC power also makes them a lot quieter (no humm/buzz when switching) they also have a nice quick snap.   I also use both an AIU and the Atlas push buttons for all switches and have had it wired up for 10+ or so years like this, and again not a single burned out switch machine.

 

 

Doctor:

If you are selling the twin coil Atlas switch motors I would be interested in buying a few. 

Thank you,

Mike CT. 

Starting to load the DZ1000s to the Atlas switches.

 

 

 

Peter