Connecting Legacy & TMCC Command Base to DCS

Mike,

assigned to TMCC #1 with Remote Address #28 on TIU #1

Some questions:

• Can you clarify exactly what you mean by the above statement?
• What TMCC ID# did you use with the Cab 2 when you operated the engine?
• Did you press Startup before attempting to operate the TMCC engine using the DCS Remote?
• When you enter commands on the DCS Remote to operate the TMCC engine, what lights flash on the command base?

Barry ...

Some questions:

• Can you clarify exactly what you mean by the above statement?
• MSK:  I deleted the engine settings and started over. DCS assigned the engine to TMCC ADDR = 1 but I changed this setting to match the setting in my Cab 2.  THe TMCC ADDR = 29 the same as in the Cab2; DCS Assigned the Engine to "29" in the Engine List.  TIU #1 was the default setting.  After this change the engine still does respond on the DCS Remote
• What TMCC ID# did you use with the Cab 2 when you operated the engine?
• MSK:  Cab 2 ID = 29.  As noted above, I changed the DCS Handheld to 29 to match the Cab 2 address.
• Did you press Startup before attempting to operate the TMCC engine using the DCS Remote?
• MSK  I pressed startup on the DCS remote … unclear what other startup would there be?? … on the Cab2??
• When you enter commands on the DCS Remote to operate the TMCC engine, what lights flash on the command base?
• MSK None

I sincerely your help!

Is the cabling correct?  I used the lionel cable to connect to the MTH Cable?

I also used the MTH DCS-TMCC cable direct to the Legacy Base with same result.  Legacy base does not blink there appeases to be no connectivity between the two base units when pressing keys on the DCS remote.

Mike,

• When you enter commands on the DCS Remote to operate the TMCC engine, what lights flash on the command base?
• MSK None

That's a problem.

Some additional questions:

• What is the MTH product number of the MTH cable? If it's not 50-1032, it isn't going to work. Any chance that you're using the older cable that worked with your TMCC base?
• The MTH cable ends are labeled. What is the label on the TIU end and what's the label on the Legacy end?

Try connecting the cable between the TIU and the TMCC base, eliminating the Legacy base altogether. Run the single wire between the TMCC base (only) to the TIU channel output Common.

If that works, you most likely have a cabling problem with the Legacy base.

I connected the MTH Cable from the TIU to the TMCC Command Base, I connected the ground wire from the TMCC Command Base to the TIU Fixed #2 Black Post.  All of these connection bypass the Legacy BAse.  I went through the DCS Engine Setup again matching the TMCC IDs with the TMCC Cab1 and DCS.  The engine started up and runs using the MTH DCS Remote!!!!

However … there are gremlins loose on the layout ...

Presently the Legacy base and TMCC Base are not connected and the Legacy Base is not connected to the TIU … completely isolated.

When I connect the Legacy Base ground wire to my Lionel ZW which connects to track that are completely isolated from the track controlled by the TIU above, I lose the control of the TMCC engine running on the TIU controlled track.

 Also note that the TMCC Command Base is completely isolated from the Lionel ZW and the track connected thereto and that Lionel Bricks attached to the ZW are off.  The only device that has power to it is the legacy command base …  What???

Mike,

First, if both command bases are connected to the track, neither one will work.

Second, if both tracks are using the Lionel ZW for power, the two command bases are connected together via the ZW's Common connection.

That's why neither work when both are powered up and connected to the ZW, either directly or through the tracks/TIU.

It would appear that you have the older MTH cable #50-1016, which pre-dates Legacy. That cable will only work with TMCC. If you want to use Legacy, you need MTH cable #50-1032, which works with both.

This and a whole lot more is all in MTH’s “The DCS O Gauge Companion 2nd Edition", available for purchase as an eBook or a printed book at MTH's web store!

Barry,

I have three O Gauge ovals on a tile floor that I'll label Track # 1, 2, 3.  These tracks are not physically connected to each other.

Track #1 is connected to TIU #1, Fixed Output #2 with Cable 50-1016 to Lionel TMCC Command Base.  This track is powered by a separate Lionel 180 Brick.

Track #2 is connected to a Lionel ZW A-U, Powered by a separate Lionel 180 Brick

Track #3 is connected to the same Lionel ZW D-U, Powered by a separate Lionel 180 Brick

Lionel Legacy Ground Wire is connected to the same ZW U posts for A and D

When I turn power on to my system, the TMCC, Legacy and TIU bases gets powered first.  Then I turn on my Bricks to the tracks I want to run.

I turn on the Brick supplying power to Track #1 (TIU).

At this time all command bases are powered but only Track #1 has power. 

If I disconnect the ground wire at the Legacy base or pull the power plug to shut the Legacy base off, I can operate the legacy engine through the TMCC through the TIU.  However, if I keep the Legacy base powered with a ground wire to the ZW, all of which is totally physically isolated from Track #1 and the TIU, the Legacy engine ceases to respond to the DCS Remote although the red light flash on the TMCC Base when I press any keys.  

If I disconnect the ground wire from the Legacy base to the ZW or pull the Legacy power plug, the legacy engine responds to the DCS Remote on Track#1.

Also note that the Cab2 remote is off the entire time.

This is crazy!!!  Does the Legacy Base when a ground wire is attached emit a control signal that overpowers the TMCC??? 

NOTE:  I also have 2 G Gauge ovals using MTH DCS.  They are on TIU #1 Fixed #1 with DC power from a Bridgewerk Transformer.

I also have TIU#2 run an HO loop from the same Bridgewerk source.

Both work great and no problems or interference from the O Gauge dilemma. 

I'll post a video.

Try brainstorming a new control configuration that only requires connecting ONE Lionel command base to the layout's track. I don't think your independent loops are actually isolated; two operating command bases connected to the layout is not going to work.

Isn't there a Y connection (cable ) that goes to  the TMCC base and Legacy base   ? 

Railsounds ...

Before attempting the MTH TIU connection with Lionel Legacy/TMCC  … The TMCC Command Base was connected to the Legacy Base using the Lionel serial cable, which was connected to the ZW A-U using the ground as noted above.  I let my granddaughter use the Cab1/TMCC to control Track 3 and I used Cab2/Legacy to control Track 2.  This configuration worked perfectly for over 6 months.

The issue arose when I tried to connect the Legacy/TMCC with the TIU and Track #1 to run a Legacy engine on a track that I traditionally just ran MTH engines.

The wiring is straight forward and simple and Track #1 is physically isolated from Track #s 2 & 3.

Crazy as it sounds ...

I appreciate your response. Thanks

Greg … Yep, that is the cable I was referring to above.  As Barry stated I need to get the updated cable from MTH for Legacy to complete the connection.  That may solve my issue.  Ordering it tomorrow.  Appreciate your reply.  Thanks.

UPDATE: Sorry, I see you already have a plan, which sounds like a good one. Using the Legacy compatible cable should allow you to disconnect the U wire from your TMCC command base from the track, but continue to use both the old and new CAB remote, as well as the MTH remote.

Mike,

Using the original TMCC Base and the Legacy Base connected via the Lionel serial Y cable is fine; that allows you to use original TMCC CAB1 remotes and Legacy CAB2 remotes simultaneously. As you indicate, that worked on your layout. In this configuration, there would be a ground wire from the Legacy U terminal to the track. On the TMCC command base, there would be NO such connection.

If you connect the U terminal on both the TMCC base and the Legacy base to track on your layout, even if these tracks appear to be isolated, you will have problems. 

Thanks to Barry, Railsounds and Greg for taking time to respond!  You're the best!!!

mikek,

   You just experienced just why this is the best forum on the Net, the experience level and knowledge here are just incredible.  Rich Melvin runs a 1st class operation on the OGR.  I do suggest you purchase Barry's DCS O Gauge Companion book and the OGR Video Guide to DCS also, they are both great instructional material for DCS/Legacy.

PCRR/Dave

Thanks Dave and to all … I agree, a wealth of information and a willingness to share and offer assistance.  

Update … received the updated TMCC/Legacy to TIU cable that Barry suggested and everything works perfectly!!  I had 6 loops running today powered by 3 Lionel 180 Bricks and 1 Bridgewerks 15a DC power pack, 2 MTH DCS TIUs, Lionel ZW, Legacy Base and a TMCC Command Base.  The Legacy and TMCC base units are connected to TIU #1's RS-232 Input.

Starting at the outer loop, Atlas track that I made a D120+ ...  I had 2 MTH HO Diesels, a CSX ES44 pulling a 20-car coal train and a CSX SD70ACe pulling a 25 car articulated intermodal twin stacks powered by DC through TIU #2 Fixed #1.  Timing and speed was everything to ensure no collisions with two trains on the same main.

Next … D120 G Gauge with USATrains NS GP9 with MTH DCS installed pulling 10 CSX/NS Coal Cars and CSX Caboose powered by DC through TIU#1 Fixed #1

Next … O72 Lionel Track … Lionel Legacy CSX ES44 pulling 25 CSX Coal Cars (last car with ETD … these are cool!) Legacy Base to ZW AU Track #1 powered by Lionel 180 brick

Next O72 MTH Track … Lionel Legacy NS/Pennsy SD70ACe pulling a 20 car articulated intermodal twin stacks with ETD, powered by Lionel 180 Brick to TIU #1 Fixed #2, controlled through the MTH Remote ...

Next O60 Lionel Track … Lionel Legacy CSX SD40-2 pulling a combination of cars including coal, box, and grain. Legacy Base to ZW DU Track #4 powered by Lionel 180 Brick.

Lastly, D60 G Gauge USATrains L&N NW2 with MTH DCS installed, pulling a variety of CSX and L&N Box Cars with L&N Bay Window Caboose, also powered by DC through TIU#1 Fixed #1.

All loops had straight track strategical placed to fit loops with common D within.

All track are wired with in-line fuses consistent with the gauge of engine being powered.

Why … because the opportunity and challenge was there to do it.

I know the videos I post may be boring to some but WTH, it is all I can do for now and I am still getting to run my trains and I love it even though it is just an oval(s)!!!!

Again … Thanks for your expert assistance.