As of now all my engines are conventional and I'd like to expand to something with remote control, I know for Lionel there's Lion Chief up to Legacy. I'd like to include MTH engines in my search. What , in their engine's description , do I look for to tell me it can be run remotely. I'm guessing that they have capabilities similar to Lionel in running engines this way.
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For MTH engines, look for those that have DCS; within DCS, there are 2 sub-categories: PS2 (1st generation DCS) or PS3 (2nd generation DCS). In your search, you may also find other brands, such as Weaver or Williams, that have been converted to one of the command control systems, such as DCS (MTH) or TMCC (Lionel).
@DunningStation posted:As of now all my engines are conventional and I'd like to expand to something with remote control, I know for Lionel there's Lion Chief up to Legacy. I'd like to include MTH engines in my search. What , in their engine's description , do I look for to tell me it can be run remotely. I'm guessing that they have capabilities similar to Lionel in running engines this way.
@DunningStation - Something you should be aware of is that while the Lionel command/control system is proprietary it isn't compatible with the MTH DCS. However, the MTH DCS can - with some additional hardware - run BOTH the MTH DCS and Lionel's TMCC and some of the Legacy features.
If you are conventional only, you could look into adding remote conventional control with a Lionel Power master and Cab1 remote. Other options include a Z4000 with a Z4K remote & receiver, or a MTH TIU with DCS remote.
@paulp575 posted:@DunningStation - Something you should be aware of is that while the Lionel command/control system is proprietary it isn't compatible with the MTH DCS. However, the MTH DCS can - with some additional hardware - run BOTH the MTH DCS and Lionel's TMCC and some of the Legacy features.
To expand upon this, by "not compatible" it means the two systems don't natively issue signals readable by the other brand's locomotives. but DCS can operate a TMCC or Legacy control box by way of a connector cable at the price of a few missing features. Legacy/TMCC does not have the capability to operate a DCS control box.
Assuming you have both systems, both brand's locomotives can operate on the same track at the same time without interference (usually)
---PCJ
@BlueComet400 posted:For MTH engines, look for those that have DCS; within DCS, there are 2 sub-categories: PS2 (1st generation DCS) or PS3 (2nd generation DCS). In your search, you may also find other brands, such as Weaver or Williams, that have been converted to one of the command control systems, such as DCS (MTH) or TMCC (Lionel).
@DunningStation - Don't know your level of familiarity with MTH products, so you may already know this - in addition to the good info above, be aware that locomotives labeled "Protosounds" are not DCS - they are conventional engines with sound and some enhanced features.
It should be noted that neither Lionel or MTH have digital systems on the market at the moment. You would have to took on the second hand (spelled ebay.....) market or possible find something for sale here on the forum. Some of the sponsors may have systems on hand.
I made the jump about 18 mo ago. I bought a used Lionel Cab 1L system for TMCC, and a MTH Remote commander for basic control of MTH engines. The Cab 1L remote will be compatible with Lionel's new Base 3 system due out in 2023. The MTH RC allows for control of one engine at a time only. Basic features of speed, direction, couplers, sounds are controllable.
Both mfr's are no longer offering hand held remote controls with their new systems and will require a smart phone or tablet to operate trains.
Bob
"Both mfr's are no longer offering hand held remote controls with their new systems and will require a smart phone or tablet to operate trains."
Lionel still includes a remote with its LionChief locos in their sets, and in separate sale LionChief locos. There is also the Universal Remote that can control all LionChief locos, and Legacy, LionChief + 2.0 locos made in the last few years (they have Bluetooth advertised on the box and in the catalog). LionChief is probably the least expensive way to acquire a locomotive that is command controlled and has a physical remote. Any Legacy or LionChief + or LionChief + 2.0 loco will also operate in conventional mode. LionChief locos will not do so. LionChief locos with remotes (sets and separate sale) and Universal Remotes are all currently available, unlike the Lionel Base 3 and the MTH DCS system with remote.
You might also want to search out information on Battery Powered Remote Control (BPRC) also often referred to as "dead rail." It is one of the newest model rail control systems, but will require some tinkering skill to get up and running since nobody yet sells an engine ready-made for it.
Chuck
@Landsteiner posted:"Both mfr's are no longer offering hand held remote controls with their new systems and will require a smart phone or tablet to operate trains."
Lionel still includes a remote with its LionChief locos in their sets, and in separate sale LionChief locos. There is also the Universal Remote that can control all LionChief locos, and Legacy, LionChief + 2.0 locos made in the last few years (they have Bluetooth advertised on the box and in the catalog). LionChief is probably the least expensive way to acquire a locomotive that is command controlled and has a physical remote. Any Legacy or LionChief + or LionChief + 2.0 loco will also operate in conventional mode. LionChief locos will not do so. LionChief locos with remotes (sets and separate sale) and Universal Remotes are all currently available, unlike the Lionel Base 3 and the MTH DCS system with remote.
Good point. I hadn't thought of LC and LC+ engines.
I didn't fully get you were asking primarily about MTH locos. MTH locos that operate in command mode are those listed as PS2 or PS3. Unfortunately, there is no currently in production inexpensive way to control these in command mode (they also work in conventional). The sets (no longer in production as far as I know) came with a limited version of the DCS TIU named the Explorer. You may be able to find one on the secondary market. Unfortunately, Explorer also only uses an app/smart device and will not respond to any physical remote, including the DCS handheld. Separate sale version of the Explorer also did not come with a power supply which is another challenge.
MTH also used to make (and include in older sets) their Remote Commander, which can control PS2 and PS3 locos in command mode and comes with a physical remote. Another potential purchase on the secondary market. The Remote Commander can only control one loco at a time, if that is an issue, and used infra-red, not radio frequency, so not as convenient/functional, but got the job done.
Bottom line, nothing MTH has made recently or planned for the future uses a physical remote, so if that is important, I'd stick with LionChief/Universal Remote for the time being. Perhaps if demand is strong enough and conditions allow, MTH will make some sort of physical remote for PS2 and PS3 locos, but that's complete speculation on my part. I know quite a few people have asked for MTH to consider doing this, because a physical remote is preferred by many, myself included. If you're OK with the smart device/app, you should be able to purchase an MTH DCS system called the Wi-Fi TIU some time in 2023 that will allow you to control MTH locos in conventional and command modes, which is probably the best solution to controlling MTH locos remotely going forward.
"Both mfr's are no longer offering hand held remote controls with their new systems and will require a smart phone or tablet to operate trains."
I thought Lionel is still making the Cab1L remote?
@DunningStation I bought several MTH Rail King locos with Protosound, conventional only, back in the late 90s and early 2000s. Then as I wanted to go with remote control but more importantly, cruise control, I started converting some to TMCC using some now defunct suppliers and now I use ERR upgrades to TMCC. While a new Lionel TMCC equipped loco may be had for close to the same dollars, I like my MTH locos better, I already have them and have matching passenger car sets.
So a ERR TMCC upgrade may be the answer to your quest for remote control if you find a used Cab 1 or Cab1L system.
@Ward H posted:I thought Lionel is still making the Cab1L remote?
Correct, the CAB1L will still be cataloged.
As I have 18 Lionel Fastrack switches that I have taken the manual controllers off with the plan of getting a Lionel Base 3 to control, sounds like I'll have to stick with Lionel engines or use 2 systems if I buy MTH. Looks to me like the railking engines run conventionally while Premier has remote capabilities.
@DunningStation posted:Looks to me like the railking engines run conventionally while Premier has remote capabilities.
Actually, almost all the MTH locomotives have PS/3 nowadays. Although MTH did have conventional offerings, a vast majority of Railking is command capable.
Railking PS3 units exist. Railking will run on O31 curves and is near scale where Premier is actually scale size. PS2 and PS3 are capable of remote control with the right equipment.
For myself, at 50, after going from conventional running (older PW Lionel, and the newer MTH offerings - no battery, just electronic QSI sounds) then jumping on the PS1 bandwagon (really huge improvement over conventional to us older guys at the time) then seeing and jumping into the PS2/TIU/handheld remote systems..... I took a shine to the MTH system. I used to tell guests to the layout, that running the "new" trains, with the PS2-remote/walk around control was "as close to running a real train as you might get."
People who had older stuff, were always fascinated by my being able to run multiple engines on the same track, at various speeds and different directions, uncouple anywhere remotely, PSA and PFA voicing, smoke and volume control....they could not believe such a system existed. My advice is to jump on board of something: Lionel, MTH, and enjoy the feeling.
I might add, that while running a system with phone sounds like a neat/good idea, to me it is not the same! I watched younger guys do it this December, and found out my TIU version is different, and I have not upgraded to new WIFI. Maybe I never will - I see no great benefit to me at my age.
Like GRJ and others, I am an old school hanger-on, at now 75, I know what I know. Wish me luck, I need my PS2 and TIU stuff to last.....I wish you luck in your endeavor.
(Others will cringe at this: I checked - I have one remote/TIU with ver. 3.1 and one with (I think) 4.2, and all work well so far.)
@gunrunnerjohn posted:Actually, almost all the MTH locomotives have PS/3 nowadays. Although MTH did have conventional offerings, a vast majority of Railking is command capable.
John hit the nail. I myself, have NO premier, but a bunch of PS2 Railking that sound like Premier, do what the Premier do, but run on 32 and 36" radius curves...a huge benefit to me, and maybe to you also. Quite a price difference back in the day also, I have no idea what the market is now. Greg
Researching what I need to run my engines remotely. For Lionel it's a Base 3 , that hasn't come out yet, and for MTH , looks like a 501001 remote control set. The MTH came out in 2000 . Can't find any new ones for sale and wonder if MTH has come out with something newer?
Are you referring to running your conventional locos remotely, or to running Lionel TMCC/Legacy/Lionchief locos and MTH PS2/PS3 locos remotely? The approach will be different for each of the three.
@DunningStation posted:Researching what I need to run my engines remotely. For Lionel it's a Base 3 , that hasn't come out yet, and for MTH , looks like a 501001 remote control set. The MTH came out in 2000 . Can't find any new ones for sale and wonder if MTH has come out with something newer?
The 50-1001 is the original TIU & DCS Remote set and yes they are out of production. It has been replaced with the newer, yet to be released, 50-1039 WTIU system the runs exclusively with the MTH DCS App. According to MTH the WTIU has a delivery date of June 2023.
@DunningStation posted:As of now all my engines are conventional and I'd like to expand to something with remote control, I know for Lionel there's Lion Chief up to Legacy. I'd like to include MTH engines in my search. What , in their engine's description , do I look for to tell me it can be run remotely. I'm guessing that they have capabilities similar to Lionel in running engines this way.
I have been following this thread but hadn't posted yet. I am still trying to learn/sort out all the iterations of controls systems available. This has been a good summary, thanks to all that have posted! I am in "sort of" a similar situation. Been buying EXCLUSIVELY used locomotives produced 35 - 15 years ago. NO Lionel or MTH. They have been Weaver, Williams and K-Lionel. Most are conventional, although (3) have OEM installed TMCC. Don't think it has been mentioned in this thread but (starting around 2000?) Lionel licensed others to install TMCC. Just wanted you to be aware of that.
I have one question for you, though. Are you looking to buy ready to run Locos? As has been pointed out here you can convert what you have (conventional). Or if you buy older Command Locos, like I have, can gut and upgrade to more recent systems. I personally am leaning toward Deadrail Conversion at this point.
The "cheap way" would to be to keep what I have and get an old used TMCC set-up. They are available.
Just some food for thought!
I still run conventionally with the z4k and the simple remote that plugs behind it.
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