CONVERTING PRE WAR AC MOTOR TO DC CAN MOTOR

Pat @harmonyards is your man for expertise in doing these conversions.

Please post your progress I am very interested

thanks

First, we need to determine what is a prewar 2020?

Pat

That’s simple it’s the model after 2019 pre war Kyiv  

@BIGDOG1943 posted:

I AM THINKING ABOUT CONVERTING MY PREWAR 2020 STEAM ENGINE TO A CAN MOTOR AND NEED SOME HELP.

Any progress in you endeavors?

I am in the process of designing a prewar Lionel 260e from the original AC motor to a DC motor with flywheel. And I would like to learn from others on their progress.

thanks

BigDog, your 2020 is a POSTwar Lionel steam turbine.  Frank Timko (R.I.P. 2023) used to offer flywheel motor conversions on those.  However, I'm not convinced that his conversion yielded much improvement.  For one, the can motor stuck way out of the cab.  Second, the original gear ratio is very tall.  So just replacing the Pullmor motor with a Mabuchi doesn't address the root of the problem.  If you want a smooth running traditionally-sized turbine with a can motor, the RailKing "Baby" Turbine is geared better than the Williams reproduction, IMO that's the way to go.

Regarding the 260e, that loco has a four-wheel parallel-plate motor, with spur gears and a pancake-style armature.  For the last 34(!) years I've been hoping that Lionel or someone would offer a retrofit chassis that would allow conversion of its venerable 4- and 6-wheel parallel plate mechanisms to a longitudinally-mounted can motor and flywheel.  This would definitely require some original engineering and a comprehensive approach.   It's like turning a frog into a prince or lead into gold.  (It would actually be easier to revert your 260e to its clockwork / wind-up roots!)

This type of conversion kit should have happened a long time ago.  But when the 1990s-2000s boom in O gauge hit, the focus was on 1:48 scale equipment.  Whatever demand there was for upgrading "toy trains" was instead met by newly-tooled RailKing and LionChief product lines.

Michael you might take a good look at an MTH 10-3001-1 for inspiration, but others on this board will tell you that MTH's O gauge tinplate "Proto-drive" wasn't ideal.  The motor was undersized and it didn't have a true gearbox, which led to gear mesh issues.  They would have been better off tooling a whole new chassis, as K-Line did in 1992 when they reengineered the "Marx 333" 4-6-2 for the can motor era.  Nevertheless I don't want to discourage you; I would love to see whatever you come up with.

If someone were going to 3D-print a commercializable retrofit kit, the largest market opportunity would probably be Lionel's 6-wheel chassis, because that was used in everything from the prewar 224, 225, 226 through the 2046 and 665, to the large Hudsons of the MPC era, and even into the 1990s.  Not holding my breath!

@Ted S posted:

If someone were going to 3D-print a commercializable retrofit kit, the largest market opportunity would probably be Lionel's 6-wheel chassis, because that was used in everything from the prewar 224, 225, 226 through the 2046 and 665, to the large Hudsons of the MPC era, and even into the 1990s.  Not holding my breath!

The market is wide open, and 3D printers are getting cheaper.  Jump into the pond, be the first to offer the kit.

John I don't know Jack about 3D printing!  And honestly, it would probably have to be printed out of metal to gain market acceptance.

What's interesting is that Lionel DID do something like this, but without backwards compatibility...  Lionel's first Thomas & Friends "Percy" used the four-wheel parallel-plate chassis common to other postwar and MPC products.  A later release of Percy DID have a resin two-piece chassis with removable wheelsets, a large worm wheel on the rear axle, and a tiny longitudinally-mounted can motor!  The problem is, the second generation had different mounting points inside the body shell.  A similar process evolved the 6-18606 (a modern-era 2037 clone) into the 6-18653, once again without backwards compatibility.    Close but no cigar!

@Ted S posted:

John I don't know Jack about 3D printing!  And honestly, it would probably have to be printed out of metal to gain market acceptance.

If it's the only game in town, they'll accept something like carbon filled plastic I suspect!

As for now knowing anything about 3D printing, don't all of us start from the same point?