Converting Scale Williams GG1 to either DCS or TMCC

You can only use TMCC on TMCC or Legacy, won't work with DCS. Same with DCS, won't work with TMCC or Legacy. However if you have both systems hooked up together then you can run TMCC thru DCS remote, repeat you need both systems to use TMCC with DCS.

Somebody else can tell you about the cost factor.

Just some additional info; if you have a Williams or Williams by Bachmann operating car it needs the Williams by Bachmann remote control to work, won't work with any command control system unless converted to command control. The same goes for the K-Line operating cars if they have remote control ability, K-Line or WBB remote only will work with these cars unless converted to command control.

Lee Fritz

Lee,

I do have both DCS and TMCC systems .  I run TMCC via DCS which actually works pretty well.  I only favor DCS because I caught a very good deal on it when I was first looking for a command system so I am much more familiar with how to use it than TMCC.     If the same deal were for TMCC I would have bought that at the time.

Thanks for the reply.

Ed

Ed,

Glad to give you a little bit of advice.

I have only the DCS system with 4 MTH engines that use it. I wish I had TMCC as I bought a new Atlas U-23-B with TMCC about a year ago, can only run the Atlas engine in conventional.

Lee Fritz

I'm not sure what Lee was talking about, but a conversion to TMCC is generally a piece of cake.  A bit over $200 in parts.  Boards, electrocouplers.  I haven't seen a Williams scale GG1 but it sure seems big enough to accommodate the boards etc .  Other guys have done it I'm sure. Seems like a worthy project.  Go for it.  Best of luck.

Ed Walsh posted:

Folks,....

Also, I was wondering about the complexity or level of skills required if I wanted to do the upgrade myself.  While I am no expert, I am comfortable with wiring/soldering/electrical.  I am looking for the most cost effective way to convert this loco to command.

Thanks,

Ed

 

It's not hard. The MTH PS board install needs a tach tape that's included, applied to a flywheel. The new PS3 diesel kits come with LED lights and couplers.

If you haven't installed any brand before, just put a small inline fuse inside on the hot wire. If you made a major mistake, that fuse will likely save it. A function accessory that shorts, it probably won't.

The best thing I could say, is take your time and don't rush it together. It seems like when I had things go wrong, it's because I rushed something into service. I got my start installing DCC into HO engines. So bigger ones seem easy to me. Tony's Train exchange had great tips for beginners and helped me with all DCC stuff. The others seem the same to me.

The motor must be isolated electrically from the frame!

Guys,

Thanks for the info.   I've never had any reason to open up this Williams scale GG1 to even know what kind of motor it has.  

William - $200 was about my max I was willing to pay. So That was good news.

Joe - I will read up on Tony's Train page about upgrades. Thanks

Thanks,

Ed

I'm sure gunrunner or one of the other guys has done it already.  Maybe post in the TMCC section and shake them up.  Every time I did an upgrade to TMCC it was right about $215 in parts from Boxcar Bill.   But that was three or four years ago.  

I did a Weaver scale GG1 for a customer about a year ago; TMCC command (no cruise), Railsounds, LED's for lights and about $32 for shipping it back to Missouri for a total of $206.29 parts and labor and shipping. The scale GG1's are pretty easy to work on as there's a lot of room inside them, and ERR's directions are very clear.  You should have no trouble as a DIY project. Good luck.

I did a scale Williams three or four years ago, there's tons of room in it.  I used a Cruise Commander and the older RailSounds Commander at the time.  I also hand-rolled a cab and Rule-17 & cab light control.  That actually ended up being the genesis of my engine motion sensing board, that was the engine that prompted me to build the actual board I now use.  Here's the progress pictures.  I added lighted markers and directional LED lighting.

Ed,

The ERR installation process is fun and quite simple.  Just follow the instructions and  your GG1 will run like it never did before.  You can choose to add remote couplers now or  add them later. Basic soldering skills and a little heat shrink tubing are all that are needed to make for a really nice professional looking installation.  Good luck.

Earl

Gunrunner,

Wow, I was just looking at the ERR site and the product list when I got your email with your post.     They have some nice looking items.  Were you satisfied with the operation of the loco after the ERR upgrade?  

I am leaning heavily towards the ERR solution.   I especially like them because of the positive comments I have read about the clear and accurate installation instructions they provide.   While I am comfortable with the mechanics of doing a GG1 upgrade I would need good instructions. They are currently closed until 11/1 but I will call them when they re-open.

One question you might help with.  I run TMCC via DCS and remote.  Do you see any issues regards running the ERR upgraded loco via DCS?

I am actually only looking to do this upgrade because of guilt.   My dad was an engineer for the PRR driving GG1's. I still have memories of him taking me with him in the early 50`s to the Sunnyside yard in NY to pick up a GG1 and taking it into Penn Station and then head out to NJ and points  south with a string of passenger cars.   I can only imagine the repercussions if an engineer got caught doing that today.

 I have 4 GG1’s all conventional.  Since I mostly run command of late, they don't see a lot of track time.  I know he would  not find any excuse for not running them acceptable!  

I like your rolled cab and rule 17 board.  That is a nice touch.  Is the board something you sell?    That would be something I'd like to try once I get the upgrade completed.  

Thanks,

Ed

Earl,

Thanks for the encouraging words about the ERR upgrade.  Based on everything folks have said and what I read this is the route I am going to go.

Thanks,

Ed

I have converted over 20 Williams GG-1 locomotives to PS-2 for myself and others.  The Williams G motor is an excellent locomotive.   I am a huge Legacy fan.  I have no need to convert the locomotive to TMCC.  If you want to do so, I strongly recommend paying attention to GRJ.  He will tell you how to do it. As DCS locomotives, they  run under live wire on my layout.  Each person will have to pick the system they want and go for it.

The Williams G is a wonderful locomotive.  

It's a piece of cake.  Keep it simple.  You can always go from there.  It's easy and it's fun to do.  Just follow the directions.  You are bringing life to an engine.  You are like Dr Frankenstein!   Get it done before Halloween and you get an extra Baby Ruth in your pillowcase.  

I like the Frankenstein comparison.  I have been called many things over my life but Frankenstein is a first.  

ERR products are first class...Here is the link to the install manual that you can print out and read.  Legacy Station in Georgia should have the parts you need...

http://www.electricrr.com/Manuals/Dc-V5-Inst.pdf

Marty

I have done scale GG1 before as other have said there's plenty of room for all. Weather you go all out like Gunrunner or just do the simple conversion is up to you but all I did was the couplers and directional lighting from the board. ( I didn't do sound at the time because of lack of $$ ) I have 4 scale GG1 by Williams By Bachmann I plan to do in the future and they all will be TMCC as that is my control system. There isn't really any soldering if your just doing the basic stuff as it all done with connections that you tighten a screw onto the bare wire. all you will need to do is strip about 1/8" - 1/4" of coating at end of each wire. the instructions are easy. If you can afford it ( wish I did at the time ) I would go with the cruise commander. 

Now if you decide to go DCS I have zero knowledge on that so won't even try  

The locomotive will go either way, DCS or TMCC, tons of room in the scale GG-1.  If you go DCS, the kit is a little more complex now, the PS/3 kit instructions are not as polished as the PS/2, and the tiny long wires in the harness are a bit of a PITA to manage.  The PS/3 upgrade does give you the Rule-17 lighting and cab light control if it's in the sound file you choose.  The thing with the DCS upgrades is they do come with everything you need, couplers, lights, speaker, etc.

John, Mike and I had that conversation last month.  He informed me thursday the diesel kit is now in production to use the PS-3/2 board.  Troubles over.

Marty, it makes the diesel kit easier to install, but you loose some of the cool features like Rule-17 lighting.  However, I understand why they pulled back to that benchmark, the other kit was certainly more challenging.

Excuse me if this is a duplicate reply.  Having some weird issues on the iPad.

Marty - my preference would be to have DCS as I am more familiar with that.  I was wondering if you had a wild guess as to when these kit now in production would be available and the cost.   As John indicated a big plus to the DCS upgrade is that it includes all the parts, i.e couplers and such.

John - as cool as Rule 17 capability is, for what I am doing with this specific upgrade I am good not having it.

Thank you all for the help.   

Ed

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I did a scale Williams three or four years ago, there's tons of room in it.  I used a Cruise Commander and the older RailSounds Commander at the time.  I also hand-rolled a cab and Rule-17 & cab light control.  That actually ended up being the genesis of my engine motion sensing board, that was the engine that prompted me to build the actual board I now use.  Here's the progress pictures.  I added lighted markers and directional LED lighting.

Do you ever have trouble with the hot glue getting old (a year or so) and falling off painted or plastic surfaces. I wonder if I should try some different glue. Or is it all the same?

I've never had an issue with the stuff I'm using, I have upgrades a few years old with hot glue.  I think the quality of the paint is probably more the issue than the glue.  Also, cleaning the surface is key.  I rough up interior surfaces to give better grip if they're too smooth.

Oh good point on roughing up the surface. I mostly noticed that some...might have been K Line that had super glue that came off easily. I should try roughing when I replace it. Thanks...should have thought of that.

Ed, no information is available yet.  Mike told me they are being done and that is all I have.  No disrespect to the TMCC guys as I know those come out very well.  The DCS is not a big deal to put into the Williams G motor.

cjack posted:

Oh good point on roughing up the surface. I mostly noticed that some...might have been K Line that had super glue that came off easily. I should try roughing when I replace it. Thanks...should have thought of that.

One thing I've noticed is some locomotives have paint on the inside that actually pulls off with hot glue or CA adhesive.  That's not the fault of the glue, that paint looks more like over-spray than actual paint designed to cover anything.

Here is a Legacy Cruise conversion with RS5.0.  Very smooth.  PS-3 conversion would be easy.  G