Cow catcher broke off early 50s 2-6-4 Pair

bobotech posted:

I bought an old early fifties set as far away I can figure . The engine is a 2026 prairie with roller pickups. Spent a while on it just cleaning and living it . It's flying around my little looop in the living room but is not all that pretty . The worst part is that the front cow catcher is broken off and long gone . The linkage is also rusted but I'm not too worried about that . What can I do about the broken cow catcher short of replacing the body of anything?   The engine runs really will now.  I like that it was made about 68 years ago and still runs very well.   I'm assuming that it isn't super valuable and since it's rather damaged and a good candidate for mild customizing?  I wouldn't mind painting the wheel rims white and stuff like that . 

I'll post pics later . 

Paid 50 for the set, I hope I didn't overpay. 

If your enjoying it, then heck no....you didn’t over pay for it....sounds like from your description it’s almost priceless to you....that’s what it’s all about!....I have a cow catcher for that locomotive, it has one minor little step missing, but the cowcatcher is all still there....if your trying to fix it up on the cheap, you can have this one, just cover the postage....emails in my profile....it’ll never get used, and somebody might as well enjoy it..........Merry Christmas.........Pat

Here are a couple...  HERE & HERE.

Keep your eyes open for a parts loco as well, bent/broken cab, eg.

If you have any train shows in your area I would look there first.

Why not just take "Harmonyards" generous offer? Since your engine is in as less then pristine condition, putting a new part on it for almost as much $ as you spent on the entire engine seems a questionable fix.

I say, tell Pat you'll take it!   Merry Christmas...

Mark in Oregon 

I agree or find a "beater" and make one out of two. use the shell & rod if better.

More than once I have bought a "parts engine" then decide to restore it. Fun !!

that's a slippery very greasy slope that leads you down a road of no return......

Steamer posted:

that's a slippery very greasy slope that leads you down a road of no return......

That’s an incurable sickness, to which I’m terminally afflicted with........happily............Pat

Go with Pat, that loco deserves to live.

First of all, I'm going to take Pat (Harmonyard) generous offer and run with that.  I love the engine.  I like how it has the 6 driving wheels and its longer than the more common 4 drive wheel engines.   I'm going to keep it going and try to fix it up.   I went and took the engine apart slightly last night.  I just was curious how it was assembled.   I didn't even realize that the whole cow catcher front end was replaceable.  I thought that I would need the entire train body to replace the part.   I see that the cow catcher assembly is separate from the body.     I'm going to clean out the reversing unit which does function but isn't being very nice.  Kinda sticky and hums loudly when in idle.  Looks mechanically sound though and not burnt up.   

bobotech posted:

First of all, I'm going to take Pat (Harmonyard) generous offer and run with that.  I love the engine.  I like how it has the 6 driving wheels and its longer than the more common 4 drive wheel engines.   I'm going to keep it going and try to fix it up.   I went and took the engine apart slightly last night.  I just was curious how it was assembled.   I didn't even realize that the whole cow catcher front end was replaceable.  I thought that I would need the entire train body to replace the part.   I see that the cow catcher assembly is separate from the body.     I'm going to clean out the reversing unit which does function but isn't being very nice.  Kinda sticky and hums loudly when in idle.  Looks mechanically sound though and not burnt up.   

It’s on its way to you buddy....Pat

we've got some good guys on here . and don't toss that broken pilot from that 2026...some deranged person on here may want it for a project. 

Steamer posted:

we've got some good guys on here . and don't toss that broken pilot from that 2026...some deranged person on here may want it for a project. 

I don’t throw away nothing from the trains....ya never know what you might need, or somebody else can make use of it...and be happy as a lark with it....what **** good is it sitting in the bottom of a tote?.....now it lives to run another day.........Pat

I was hoping it would arrive today but alas, I have to wait til Monday according to the tracking.     I'm excited to clean the engine up and getting it working nicely.  It is running well but the worst thing about it besides the broken cow-catcher is that the e-unit hums when the engine is in idle mode and the smoke unit doesn't appear to be working.   Oh and its missing a light bulb, but it appears that the bulb is a 1445 that I can get at the auto parts store for too much money.  LOL   

bobotech posted:

I was hoping it would arrive today but alas, I have to wait til Monday according to the tracking.     I'm excited to clean the engine up and getting it working nicely.  It is running well but the worst thing about it besides the broken cow-catcher is that the e-unit hums when the engine is in idle mode and the smoke unit doesn't appear to be working.   Oh and its missing a light bulb, but it appears that the bulb is a 1445 that I can get at the auto parts store for too much money.  LOL   

Darn, sorry Bo, I was hoping it’d get to you too before the weekend, ...I sent it as quick as I could....but you are litterally all the way on the other side of the country!....Pat

the buzzing E Unit is part of the Pre/Postwar Lionel charm.

Steamer posted:

the buzzing E Unit is part of the Pre/Postwar Lionel charm.

Oh cool, so the buzzing humming e-unit is perfectly normal?   I also have a 70s era mpc diesel that also does the same thing.   Has anyone ever made a replacement solid-state circuit to replace the mechanical e-unit?

bobotech posted:

Steamer posted:

the buzzing E Unit is part of the Pre/Postwar Lionel charm.

Oh cool, so the buzzing humming e-unit is perfectly normal?   I also have a 70s era mpc diesel that also does the same thing.   Has anyone ever made a replacement solid-state circuit to replace the mechanical e-unit?

Once you become an addict Bo, the buzz will be the most beautiful symphonic sound you could ever hear!......not sure if that’s even a word, but it sure looked bad ***....

I got the new cow catcher in the mail Monday, still haven't installed it yet though.   I'm kind curious, I"m almost half tempted to cut off the step on the other side of the cow-catcher to make it look "even".   What do you think?  I don't think I could easily repair it since the step is long gone to the great missing parts pit in the sky.    Its not big deal, just I wonder if by removing the other step will make it look a little better? 

like Sir Paul said...."Let it Be"......after a bit you won't even notice it.

bobotech posted:

  Has anyone ever made a replacement solid-state circuit to replace the mechanical e-unit?

Yes they have. As the electro mechanical e-unit got more expensive Lionel, MTH, Williams, K-line, etc began using electronic E-boards for can motors and open frame alike. Companies like Dalee still offer aftrmarket market versions of the boards as well.  

  That buzz missing  is the sound (or lack of it) that draws your attention to something being amiss after you have melded into being one with post war.

Steamer posted:

like Sir Paul said...."Let it Be"......after a bit you won't even notice it.

Maybe... if one is not too OCD.

Posting a picture may lead to ideas , specifics etc. Maybe build up a pilot beam without a cow catcher. ..add a coupler?   Brass aftermarket ladder details may be adaptable too. 

My first thought though is recreation of whats broken using JB Weld. It's pretty hand sculptable when soft, tool sculptable once set and though not quite metal, a very tough substance. 

 This whole vertical corner and 3 steps are JB Weld. Forming against plasticwrap gives a nice gloss finish. I usually use the 5min quick weld as the overnight set is a little stronger but can droop a tad too. A bit after mixing it begins firming, becomes less sticky and can then be more closely molded by fingers and tools etc. (mirror shine & stainless tools...clean um, jb sticks to some )  At that point it's like fast drying clay (the wetness of finger&tool only prevents sticking, it doesn't keep JB from setting in 5 min. I'd guess you have about 2 min to work each time.  Don't like it? Remove it. (the sooner you do the easier )

I could have sanded, used putty or filler primer to finish this smoother, but I managed to mix a near perfect color match. ( step has a fine misting of paint, it was lighter. But I didn't see enough color change to commit to a full spray... the hair-like hook shape above the red are the two layers; it took two sittings.  In normal light from 3ft away you don't see it.  Milage may vary

I went and attached the new cow catcher to my engine.  Cleaned it out some too.   Looks so much better.  LOL Now it just looks like a typical old Lionel loco that was well used and abused but not broken instead of looking all broken.  Now that is is running well and has all its parts back (minus one little itty bitty step which I might attempt to rebuild using ADRIATIC's method above), I will go ahead and disassemble it and attempt to do a bit of a restore on it.  The paint is badly scratched up and needs to be repainted.  I will then take the driver linkage off and clean it up and get rid of all the rust.  Once all that is done, I will reassemble it and hopefully it should look like a decent clean loco.  The only thing that is going to be a bummer is losing the stamped numbers on the sides of the cab but worse things have happened in life.   Its not like the engine is a high dollar engine that shouldn't be altered to maintain its value.  I do like how strong the engine pulls compared to my other Lionel engines.  

you can leave your cab numbers by a couple methods. I used to mask the numbers off, but if you put too many coats on, you have a tape line. The better method I've done is to just hold a piece of newspaper, and hold it over the numbers while you paint. Usually looks fine.

Here's a pilot I made for my 4-8-4 project made from two broken 1666 shells. I had a broken shteam chest . so with some scrapes from the junkbox and some stencil board and JB Weld, came up with this.

Leaving the numbers alone is kinda common.

You can buy rubber number inking stamps to redo the numbers with, but it's a little trickier getting it level and centered than you might expect.  Most folk use a jig of some kind to guide it home.

Try to mold/sculpt a bit of JBW to get a feel for it from wet to dry first if you aren't familiar with it. Pay attention to the characteristics as it sets (think cookie dough(tacky/sticky) meets clay) . Heavy trimming is easiest when not fully set, but it will load sandpaper very fast. I like cutting. Exacto and old heavy cut files, cleaning the teeth out with a stiff wire brush very often so the JBW doest clog/wreck them totally .

If you tend to fix stuff,  JBWeld is your friend  

One odd timesaver thing I do is let it partially set and drive greased screws into it when its a filler for a screw hole (yep in wood, etc. too) (and only coarse thread machine or wood/sht. metal screws)

  Exacting mixes will only change set time and it's strength slightly. Pigment count on colors seems to vary slightly tube to tube too. I keep it close to a 50/50 mix, but will vary slightly to color match better too.

It does have trouble sticking to some plastics. Roughing surfaces; leaving deep grooves helps there. Sometimes I file dovetail grooves if I can. 

bobotech posted:

I bought an old early fifties set as far away I can figure . The engine is a 2026 prairie with roller pickups. Spent a while on it just cleaning and living it . It's flying around my little looop in the living room but is not all that pretty . The worst part is that the front cow catcher is broken off and long gone . The linkage is also rusted but I'm not too worried about that . What can I do about the broken cow catcher short of replacing the body of anything?   The engine runs really will now.  I like that it was made about 68 years ago and still runs very well.   I'm assuming that it isn't super valuable and since it's rather damaged and a good candidate for mild customizing?  I wouldn't mind painting the wheel rims white and stuff like that . 

I'll post pics later . 

Paid 50 for the set, I hope I didn't overpay. 

See, even 60 years ago quality was a problem. 😂😂

I've had many with a broken pilot over the years. In some cases, I order the coupler bracket for the 1615 switcher, cut it to fit, and use JB Weld to stick it.

Or just wait to find a parts engine.