CP is buying/ merging CSX

I haven't heard anything about Canadian Pacific's plan to merger/ takeover CSX since mid July. Last I recall CSX had told CP no they would fight them in a merger proposal/ take over, and CP went to the NS next who told them no as well. After that merger talks have all but died down on here, and other forums. I do think that CSX is fighting to keep Bill Ackman from getting his foot in the door since he has been known to do hostile takeovers of companies that say no him.

I heard it's not going to happen as well.

Now that the CEO, who most likely would have been replaced in a takeover, has bolted to United might things change?

Depends on the cost structure of the deal. Willing buyer does no0t always men a willing seller - that is until the price is right. Don't forget Uncle Sam would need to also approve long with shareholders - 

Typical. Canada is so small they have to raid US companies to grow. Like Fiat eyeballing GM.  Fiat needs the cash.

I would think that the CP has much bigger issues to solve/overcome, instead of worrying about CSX.

Lol Canada raiding US companies? Try the other way around.

Who really knows who owns what these day??  Who is the major share holder... Bill gates? warren buffet? I don't know.

 

Remember when CN -rail  tried to take over BNSF... close but it didn't happen.

 

 

My source for info is a Battle employed by CSX. Has has been furloughed several times in the past Calendar year, and everyone under him has been furloughed indefinitely.  The in house news they are being told is that the merger becomes official Sept. 22. 

A battle?  must be a typing mistake.  I can't understand what you meant.  Surely, you are not depending on one employee for your sole source of information on which you base this thread?

Which terminal do they work out of? CSX has been laying off crewsI know Queensgate had 300 if I remember correctly. We would also be hearing that the merger was going to be made official even if it's trying to be kept under the rug. This sounds like what happened this past spring on the Indiana and Ohio railway when a Paducah and Louisville Hyrail truck was seen on the I&O and then a rumor came out from an employee that the Indiana and Ohio was going to be slipt up by the P&L, RJ Corman, and Canadian National. Turns out that it was a rumor. I'll ask around with some of "In the Know" people I know, and tell you what find.

 

Would like to know why you think CSX is drowning in debt and losing money???

 

When the rumor first came out(was it last spring?), Trains did a story on which railroad best fit with which railroad.  While none of the RR fit perfectly with any of the other RR the author came up with:  CSX and UP, BNSF and NS, I think if memory serves.  I forgot how the Canadian RR fit in to the big picture.  But CP joining CSX was not one of them.

The funny thing is that if CSX was a sponsor of this forum this thread would be deleted by now ...

First I've heard of this.

I just called a pal of mine who is in management for CSX in Jacksonville. He laughed, saying, "Man, that's old news, and wasn't even real news last year. It was just something CP was trying to do."

I would think it's extremely doubtful that the STB or anyone else would approve such a merger. The Class Ones have consolidated by absorbing other lines so much over the past 30 (pick a number) years that there are only 6 left in two countries, which lines dominate everyone else.

 

From the point of view of competition, it would be a very hard row to hoe to convince any governmental agency that this number should be further reduced. It's hard to imagine any scenario where it would be approved to have only 3 major U.S. railroads operating, unless maybe one of the roads is on the verge of failing. Little sign of that - the railroads are booming, operating at or near capacity.

I seriously hope it would be disapproved--it's bad enough that CN bought Illinois Central several years ago.  Foreign entities owning key pieces of U. S. infrastructure is just not a good idea.

Hope not...........  another large US company leaves to foreign ownership.   Not good for us in the United States by itself.

 

Mark

CSX is losing money?  News to me and I wouldn't connect them furloughing people with losing money.  With the possible exception of BNSF and NS, the Class 1's have been furloughing people since the second quarter due to declining volumes.  That is business as usual for the railroads and one of the reasons they get caught with their pants down every doggone time the economy improves.  They are too fast to pull the trigger on dumping people and too slow to bring them back.  In any event, given the number of captive shippers and the railroad's ability to raise rates regardless of the economy, you likely won't see one of them actually losing money.

 

And the previous posters who have expressed doubt the STB would smile on a large merger between Class 1's are spot on.  Individual shippers and shipper groups would be lined up against it.  As a rail shipper for 36 years, I can speak from personal experience with the mega mergers of the 1990's; not a one was anything other than a train wreck, including BN/ATSF which most casual observers thought went well.  Service stank and our costs increased dramatically.  Mergers may benefit a small group at some point but, typically it will not be the customers. 

 

Curt

 

 

With the New Panamax ships coming to east coast ports next year when the Panama Canal is widened, CSX is ideally positioned to increase merchandise deliveries. I'm sure CP is interested in an east coast partner to deliver oil to southeast oil refineries, but CSX will have enough going on that would make a takeover unlikely.  

 

This is why a merger will never happen.........................

 

On December 20, 1999, BNSF and the CN announced plans (STB Finance Docket No. 33842) to combine as subsidiaries of a new holding company.

 

The STB released its final rules on the merger (STB Ex Parte No. 582 (Sub-No. 1)) on June 11, 2001, requiring any new application to merge two Class I railroads, with the exception of smaller KCS to demonstrate that competition would be preserved and address effects of defensive moves by other carriers. Since then, no Class I mergers have taken place.

 

 The CSX announced this year a 1% reduction in T&E crews.

 Coal is down on both CSX and NS ,hence the announced reduction.

 

 My brother works out of Russell,Ky with CSX and he told me there still is talks on the railroad,at least among the workers, in CP merging with CSX.

 

 CSX and NS are both vulnerable at any given time with the economy of loosing value of their stock, but they are not in financial trouble at all.

 

 

 

 

i was hoping for one more paint job before i pull the pin ! first black then blue then grey and blue mybe red next ! conrail still my favorite john

Not if CP has been accumulating a controlling interest on the open market. SEC filings may tell that story. Hostile takeover.

 

Thanks, Swafford. It looks like if CSX says NO, it means NO.

All you need to do is buy enough stock to replace board members and in the past that os how they drive mergers.

The STB would still have to approve any merger and the review would be performed under the newer merger guidelines.  Not saying the hurdle would be insurmountable but, the combined railroad would just about have to open large parts of the combined system up to competing carriers.  If you have to do that, why bother merging?

Curt

 

Crazier things have happened. The guy running CP is a wheeler-dealer. Who knows ??

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._Hunter_Harrison     Is this the guy? ouch!!

 

The Canadian National - Burlington Northern Santa Fe merger was to create North American Railways Inc. This was the dream of Robert D. Krebs, chairman and CEO of Burlington Northern Santa Fe. Under the law that privatized Canadian National in 1995, the headquarters must remain in Montreal. However, it was Mr. Krebs that was pushing for the merger. He was planning to retire from BNSF and wanted to go out with the creation of the first coast to coast railroad. It was BNSF taking over CN, not the other way around. 

 

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB945649778591009772

 

 

Frank,

 

I have not spoken with my friend since last week.  I was not trying to start a rumor nor a troll post or anything of sorts. I was just curious why if this was happening, why there wasn't any news coverage. 

 

To answer a question about my term "Battle", it is a term we use to talk about or reference our fellow soldiers. Its a term we use when talking to each other.  Wasn't meant to confuse anyone. 

 

To answer what Div. he is in, I'm not sure. I know he runs trains between Buffalo & Cleveland, but beyond that I'm not sure I can give a more specific answer. He commutes about an hour each way to the yard. 

Good Evening James,

 

Thanks for the update. Have a great week! 

 

Regards,

Frank

NOT to be a naysayer, but, I would suggest members Google - Bill Ackman and Pershing Square. That's the key player in any rumors of acquisitions of CSX.

 

After Ackman's push to overthrow the board of CP, he installed E.H. Harrison as CEO of the railway. The stock price of CP went through the roof. All of this was not without a lot of anguish and gnashing of teeth within CP.

 

By the way, this isn't about a Canadian Company owning an American railroad. It's about an American Venture Capitalist taking over an American Railway. Regardless as to whether or not one likes such a scenario.

 

During the past Year Pershing Square (i. e. Ackman) has taken a significant position in CSX Stock. As a result, I seriously doubt any kind of consolidation here is dead. It will play out eventually. It could possibly lead to two railways being controlled and operated by a single overlord Company such as Pershing Square. It is going to be interesting to watch this play out.

Wouldn't be the first time more than one RR was controlled by one man or group.

Pershing Square would still have to have STB approval to own a controlling interest in both CP and CSX and therein lies the huge hurdle as addressed previously in this thread.

Some of you may recollect that Warren Buffett ran afoul of the STB after he had obtained ownership of BNSF.  He had indicated on the initial application to the STB that he had no controlling interest in any other railroads.  This was eventually proven to be untrue as he did actually have control of a small railroad through another company he owned.  Buffet was forced to sell his controlling interest in that company and railroad in order to retain control of BNSF.

Curt