Creative loop operations? I'm tired of running circles

Switching sidings and having the loops separated or blocked from view at spots helps a lot.

We have a glorified loop with a dogbone and 3 yards, 1 for engines, our east freight that the boys have named "The Chessie Freight" yards and then we have our harbor area with a factory and a few sidings with a crane.

We came up with a little game,

We give each engine a number, and then freight in either yard a letter and then one more roll for laps.

We then roll a number die for the engine, and then a pull a few letters out of the bowl. The letters pulled out determine which freight and which order and then the die determines how many complete laps you need to make after leaving the yard before you can deliver it to the other freight yard.

The boys have fun with it, and I get to have fun as I usually get to run the switcher that makes up the train.

Hope that helps. We've done it a few times and it is fun.

Aldovar,  Do you have a picture / diagram of your layout?

@Aldovar posted:

We give each engine a number, and then freight in either yard a letter and then one more roll for laps.

We then roll a number die for the engine, and then a pull a few letters out of the bowl. The letters pulled out determine which freight and which order and then the die determines how many complete laps you need to make after leaving the yard before you can deliver it to the other freight yard.

This is rather clever, I think I'm going to borrow it to play with my son.  He's almost 8, and for Christmas he's getting his first locomotive and couple cars, so having somethig like this would hopefully keep him more engaged.

Girders, tunnels, elevated track sections, roads, rivers, bridges (especially over roads or water features) sidings, yards, engine sheds, automated crossing gates and bridge signals all add interest to loop running.

@LarryM2 Here are some pictures, hopefully should give you an idea. I sketched out a quick diagram of our layout. Engines start in the top left of the layout, and then the east East Yard and then the West yard is the harbor.

@sinclair posted:

This is rather clever, I think I'm going to borrow it to play with my son.  He's almost 8, and for Christmas he's getting his first locomotive and couple cars, so having somethig like this would hopefully keep him more engaged.

Thanks! My boys are 4 and 8, the 4 year old is happy to just run the trains loop after loop, my 8 year old likes the game. :-)

Edit: Mini sticky notes like the ones you get for a notebook tab work really well to put on the cars, then you can change up the car in between each session or add remove cars.

For instance, this session we are going to run only tank cars or gondolas, just put the stickys on there and you are good to go.

@Aldovar That indeed is very clever. This is the type of play that I am more interested in. I have building, scenery, etc. but what I feel like is that the trains don't have a goal. There's no mission to work to complete. Your game is actually a really nice way to let an outside source determine what needs to happen as opposed to deciding yourself. Thinking along these lines you could build a number of operations. It could be interesting to work against the clock which a set time could be determined at the beginning of the game. If we use that, let's throw in another wrinkle, after X number of laps or a certain amount of time you roll again to see if your train is going to face "opposing traffic", Slow Orders" or "Clear Block" with set DCS and Legacy both having a way to determine speed it would be easy to impose restrictions.

Maybe there really is more here than what I think. I've never been a Dungeons and Dragons or any other card game player, but I'm struck by the idea that you could really develop a complex game with locomotives being assigned a pulling value, car types being assigned a capacity value, etc. With those in place then you could let the roll of the dice take control of what you are up against as an engineer.

This could be really interesting.

@Notch 6 posted:

@Aldovar That indeed is very clever. This is the type of play that I am more interested in. I have building, scenery, etc. but what I feel like is that the trains don't have a goal. There's no mission to work to complete. Your game is actually a really nice way to let an outside source determine what needs to happen as opposed to deciding yourself. Thinking along these lines you could build a number of operations. It could be interesting to work against the clock which a set time could be determined at the beginning of the game. If we use that, let's throw in another wrinkle, after X number of laps or a certain amount of time you roll again to see if your train is going to face "opposing traffic", Slow Orders" or "Clear Block" with set DCS and Legacy both having a way to determine speed it would be easy to impose restrictions.

Maybe there really is more here than what I think. I've never been a Dungeons and Dragons or any other card game player, but I'm struck by the idea that you could really develop a complex game with locomotives being assigned a pulling value, car types being assigned a capacity value, etc. With those in place then you could let the roll of the dice take control of what you are up against as an engineer.

This could be really interesting.

I am a big D&D nerd.. ;-)

You could also throw in other modifiers if you are doing time, add a dollar amount per freight load for profit. If running Steam, do you have to stop for a water? Diesel, stop for fuel? Write out the scenarios on some index cards and shuffle them, every 5 minutes or after you roll a dice pull a card. Maybe you have a hotbox that stops the game and it is 1 min to correct it, or "Can't proceed until you roll a 6", Cow on the tracks. Lose 1 minute. Express! Take 3 mins off your final score.

I'll probably add that as time goes on since my boys are still a bit small.

I’ve created a fairly simple excel based train operations game to play with my son to give layout time more purpose.  I shared it with @Aldovar a while back, just curious if you use it, or other feedback you might have.

Here's the overview:

At the beginning of each session, the game determines a random scenario of commodity freight rates per rail car type, and a random required number of mainline laps to complete in order to generate the revenue.  The goal is to maximize the earnings so the stock price goes up, within a time limit - usually 10 minutes.

There are limits to the number of total cars in the train (10 or less), and a requirement to have different types of cars (must have 3 different car types).

Essentially, the game is to build your train with the highest revenue generating loads and complete the laps under the time limit.

I also built in random costs to operate steam vs diesel so you can choose the lower cost locomotive to maximize net income.

Overall, I think it’s fun because it has an element of luck (random scenarios), but requires some thought behind which loads you would like to deliver, some real world limitations (i.e., I don't own 8 oil tankers, so I must select lower revenue freight) and skill to physically operate the trains.

I had plans to build it out in a web based version so you could keep score against yourself or friends, but haven’t gotten back to it.

If you’re interested, I can email you the excel file to try it out to see if you like it.

@JD2035RR posted:

I’ve created a fairly simple excel based train operations game to play with my son to give layout time more purpose.  I shared it with @Aldovar a while back, just curious if you use it, or other feedback you might have.

Hi @JD2035RR I used it a few times, but it was a bit much for my boys. I've used it personally at night when it is just me running, I ended up going with the note card a dice for the tactileness and they like rolling the dice and pulling the numbers.

Notch-6, I show my age when I say I came to the same conclusion about 1974!

You did not post  your track plan, so it is hard to make suggestions.    Send me a sketch if you like.

However, if you do not have some industrial sidings, you don't have many options.    You need some places for the cars to go and  you need a system that sort of routes them without  you taking full control.   In other words a random routing system that provides you with something like waybills to tell where to move each car if you want that detail. 

A concept that works really well is to designate one of the stub sidings as an "interchange" where cars from other RRs come onto your system.    Then if you have 2 or 4 or 6 industrial sidings you can route the cars off the interchange to those sidings and take the cars you pick up from the industries back to the interchange track.    I'm guessing if  you have 5-6 industries (they may not all be on separate tracks, two or more can be on one track) and 12-15 cars, doing the above operations might take your 30-45 minutes.    This is especially true if some of the sidings are "facing point" requiring you to run around  your train to work them.    This requires a double ended passing track siding but is well worth it.

I have a layout when I first started operatiing that had about 6 industries and I designated 2 interchange tracks.   I have about 15 cars on the layout.    Each interchange track held 3-4 cars.    I had two siding waybills.   On one side I had  a destination on the layout for the car type ie box, gon, hopper, tank etc and the other side had one of the interchanges ie PRR and C&O.    When the cars were on the interchange, I would remove the waybill and replace it with a new one drawn randomly from the stack for that car type.    when I set the car at the industry, I would flip the waybill to the other side to show which interchange the car went to on the next session.     I would pick up the cars already at the industries and take them to proper interchange track.    It would take me a good half hour to 45 minutes to "run" the layout and each session was a little different.    I had not yard per se, just an engine house.   If you have a yard that increases the complexity and things your can do. 

By the way, that layout had a loop.

Our outer loop has two sidings; outside the loop; an industrial siding with multi-story manufacturing facilities(fronts) and a siding with two REA buildings.  An operating session begins with an 0-6-0 picking up box cars(LCL)  from the manufacturers(of consumer items) and moving those cars to the REA buildings.  Nothing spectacular but it takes a few minutes and looks like the little railroad is serving customers, hence making money.  John

Derek, there are several NMRA members in your vicinity that host operating sessions (fewer due to covid, but there are some going on).  Although the world of scale operations is a bit different than O-gauge, it might be an opportunity to see how they set things up.  If you're in NMRA, check for operators in your area.  If you're not in NMRA but might be interested in talking to them, email me and I'll give you some contacts.

Train layouts with only simple loops will bore quickly, even great looking layouts like the Lionel showroom layouts.  They entertain and keep interest for an hour or so.  My brother and I enjoyed our oval and figure 8 for several two week Christmas times but quickly lost interest after my Dad answered our request to put the layout up for months in the basement.  That was the end of  the train layout and building and operating model planes and boats took over, and lasted through college.

Your efforts to play games or conceive missions will help for a while.

The best solution is to add operational features to the layout like many routes for the trains with switches (29), add a Wye or turntable, allow multiple trains (up to 5) in operation, add accessories to give purpose for the trains to run like coal, lumber, cattle, horses, etc. loading and unloading.

I did that for my layout 40 plus years ago (My layout does the all above) and it has held interest for most of that time.  I will say I spend and enjoy adding to and improving the layout more than than I enjoy running it unless for visitors.

Charlie

Staging around mountains help a lot. Trains leaving and reentering your eyesight adds to the fun

Scott Smith

Double loop with turntable and double crossover plus upper level with many scenes and accessories in a 9' X 9' setting:

Note that my track plan has one main line around its L shaped perimeter, and reverse loops at each end. My mental exercise is to have Train # 1 (Diesel freight with cruise control) run back and forth continuously through the reverse loops like a drone. Train #1’s interest is that while it doesn’t stop, it alternates between CW and CCW in each reverse loop. Two round trips are required to repeat its pattern.

Simultaneously, Train # 2 (Steam Passenger) is manually controlled around the perimeter as I am challenged to dodge the constantly reversing Train #1 (the two trains share about 60% of the perimeter track). There are two stations, and Train #2 must stop at both to await a clear track ahead. The two trains flip the switches, except the one at the far left side which has to be set manually twice in each complete cycle.

I have to pay attention at all times. The game is to complete at least ten cycles without mishap in a given session.

The first public performance for a TTOS Convention Layout Tour was a disaster. A guest began asking questions, and the idiot operator (me) answered him. The ensuing head on collision left a difficult to reach engine and its cars stuck back on the track behind the entertainment cabinet. The tour members enjoyed less than a couple minutes of operation.

The second public performance was for an NMRA Convention Tour where I announced at the beginning that I had to concentrate like a real R.R. dispatcher, and would speak only after the run.  Success!

I feel so uncreative now!   great stuff

Install some passing sidings and store trains in them, then let the different trains take turns running. Obviously, you will have to keep the mainline clear for this to work. I have built up a good number of Legacy,LC+ and TMCC engines. I can run up to three trains, using those engines, on the main line, if I choose to. The game becomes one of keeping the trains from hitting each other. When you have guests in the train room watching this, the concentration needed can get a little intense. I have been physically tired from this before.

All great stuff and ideas! I see the makings of a game here.

When my son was young,  we did a layout with the card system of waybills. Each car had a card with a pocket and each industry had a smaller card that would go in the pocket. You could shuffle and "deal" a scenario and then had to deliver each car to the right place. This system had been used for a while by the scale guys and was quite popular at the time.

In my attempt to mix things up, my layout has five dead end branch lines running to 5 rural towns.  I am running peddler freights moving raw materials to fabricators and coal, oil, lumber and beef transportation.

Also lots of commuter action requiring out and back point to point function to a main line interchange where folks transfer to full length cars running into the imaginary big city (passenger staging).

When I just want to therapeutically  view the "fish tank" I activate a connector escape track which ties two branch line dead ends together and just let some trains chase each other around.

If I had one piece of advice to give it'd be take the time to draw up an interesting track plan as the old loops from childhood days gets boring within minutes (as kids we made things interesting by playing with toy soldiers on the tracks, blasting through obstacles, using our imaginations to fill in scenery and the journey

These modern scale trains, even semi-scale, look so much better when they're allowed to stretch their legs. Broad curves and long straits or very gently curving mainlines are an added bonus.

It's amazing what can be achieved with mainline operations by giving the trains a journey, though albeit it'll still be in loops, just more complex irregular shaped loops, including "tunneling" through walls, under steps, etc; and via connecting mainlines through 45 degree or 90 degree crossovers such that the trains by necessity need to be on a time-table or else its train wreck time.

With an interesting mainline track plan as No. 1 criteria, now you can add sidings and industries if switching operations are interesting to you.

I wanted to do all of the above as a kid, but I didn't have the skills nor permission to tunnel through basement walls. I still imagine my trains going on a journey as I did as a boy, but now I've been able to give them a more realistic voyage and it is great fun

The AGHR layout is essentially two mainline loops. However, we mask that by twisting it around, scenic elements, elevation changes, short-cut bypasses and not following the line of the bench work. We also added a mountain branch that is configurable for short or long loop-to-loop reversing (with passing sidings for two or more trains).

I have a small layout but I can keep it interesting with many switching opportunities. Cars can get picked up from the "Interchange track' and delivered out to either the local warehouse, team track, or upper level excursion line. Empties/ loads come back to the yard for the next outbound manifest. All of the spurs fit two cars max so I try and make it harder by delivering the lead car, so I have to drop one, deliver one, pick up the dropped car, and carry on.

If I don't feel like "working" I can set two trains to run the ovals with a third on a passing loop on the main level.

It keeps me occupied for now, one day a bigger layout will replace this one.

All operations include a nice single malt as well.....

Bob

For me a model railroad has to perform work, delivering, picking up and transporting goods. To that end the Plywood Empire Route, a very simple switching pike, has two industrial areas. The East End has three short sidings with a total of four customer car-spots and storage for one more. The West End has one stub siding with four customer car spots and storage for two more cars off-spot. A total of just four track switches. An Interchange track in the adjacent room provides a fiddle-yard for assembling consists. Ten different switch-lists are cycled through to determine the consist of the day which varies from three to eight cars. It takes 20-45 minutes to operate the switching job of the day, coming from Interchange to Town where the required pick-ups and set-outs are performed before finally returning to Interchange. One additional track switch creates a continuous loop but is not actually needed. All the attention is on the switching work.

The East End:

The West End:

Interchange, ready to consult the switch list on the exposed page of the tablet and assemble today's train:

It doesn't take a lot of real estate to enable a couple industry sidings and an interchange track.

@stangtrain posted:

Double loop with turntable and double crossover plus upper level with many scenes and accessories in a 9' X 9' setting:

Love your RR.  I wonder if you could give us an overhead shot.  That would be great. Thank you

Matt,

What a great layout. Who's the lucky boy ?

Ron H

Great topic!  When I designed my layout I wanted both loop running and switching capabilities.  As my layout room is only 10 1/2' x 12 ' I knew I would have to make some compromises.  I only have a small two track yard to stage cars, but I do have a fair number of industries.  I have a list of cars that each industry might need and I base my train makeup on this list.  I own many cars that do not fit with any of my industries.  I designate these as "run through" cars.  I pull these out when I'm in the mood for loop running.  Run through trains get the high horsepower motive power. ( I have to justify owning them )  My "locals" use first generation road switchers for the most part.  I have two railroads represented; Penn Central and AC&Y.  The PC line is designated by the black lines.  AC&Y is red.  I have a small interchange track, indicated by the green line.  An operating session takes about 3 hours to complete, if I'm working by myself.  A second operator cuts about 1/2 hour off the time.

I start by placing six to eight cars on the track in the yard.  I pull the cars with a PC loco and do a couple of laps around the layout.  I usually try to run the trains at about 20 scale mph.  The first order of business is to set out cars for the AC&Y.  The PC train then runs laps while I work the AC&Y.  This is where things get fun.  The AC&Y crosses the PC at several locations and it is necessary to foul the crossings while performing switching moves.  The AC&Y also has trackage rights on the PC to facilitate some moves.  The AC&Y train has to wait until the PC train clears the crossing before it can perform its switching moves.  I work as efficiently as possible as the PC train will come back around in about three minutes.  This scenario plays out several times over the course of an operating session.  After the AC&Y crew picks up cars from the industries and spots new ones in their place, the train returns to interchange with the PC.  Meanwhile, the PC crew is switching customers along the main line.  Again, cars are pulled from sidings and new ones set out.  After all of the PC switching is completed, the train picks up the cars that the AC&Y set out at the interchange track and returns to the yard.  These cars will be exchanged for different cars at the next operating session.

It is a lot of fun, but can get nerve wracking at times.

Tom

Think about producing and consuming industries.

• Do you have a saw mill on the railroad?
  Then you need a furniture factory to take delivery of the lumber.
• Is there an oil well on the railroad?
  You need a refinery to handle all those tank cars.

You get the idea...