Crossing T's and Dotting I's..The Scale of Scales

I still do not undersatnd the listing of some scales. I have made quite a few "mistakes" through the years getting items that in no way match up to my other items the way I had hoped they would.

 

As a newbie knowing what "size" or "scale" you want can be quite confusing. There are so many sizes within O scale iteslf.

 

I would welcome an easy to use, easy to inderstand way of listing O items especially for newcommers. I just don't think that will happen. Trial and error seems to be the best teacher right now.

 

 

 

"Standards" (and I use the term loosely) in "G scale" are a mess.  Which is why I got out of G completely, about ten years ago.

 

As for the difference between Traditional and Scale, well, you're right.  "O scale" and "non-scale" would make more sense.  It's not always easy to tell to what scale -- if any -- a piece of O gauge rolling stock conforms, just from an advertisement.

 

The problem with "traditional" sized O gauge is that proportion AND scale are not necessarily the same relating to height, width and lenght, and it can vary from piece to piece in the same "series." 

 

A "traditional" sized boxcar for example, from Lionel, MTH, RMT and Atlas O Trainman are each a different size in relationship to each other and none are to any particular scale.

 

Rusty

It recently happened again..In had two full sets of Rock Island passenger equipment when I happened to see the Lionel Rock Island F unit from the set as a separate sale item and so thinking it would conform to these K Line cars ( regardless that the prototype was a freight unit) I bought it. Well, it was just a tad too tall although the proportions overall were not that bad..what the heck? And so its been relegated to freight duties with cars matched as close as possible to the engine. 

Marx in tinplate is probably the most bizarre antecedent of this..S scale on O gauged track.. and then there was the matter of D type trucks that were huge compared to other Marx types..all of this has been going on since time began ( LOL) Some common sense in relating size of what they sell would help as there will never be a standard scale in anything O or G. Ugh.. 

Ditto on mistakes Jeff.

My preference would be a chart or table that distinguishes scale for different product suppliers that are widely purchased (lionel, MTH railking and premier, WBB, RMT, etc.). The categories would be engines, rolling stock, passenger cars, figures (people), buildings and vehicles. Would be a fun project if I had the time.

That's why I don't buy anything listed for auction unless the scale is specified. Even then it's sometimes a crap-shoot.

 

Of course, there's the situation where you want something larger/smaller than scale to represent an O scale version of something large or small, like using N scale for park trains or Z scale for 1.5-inch, or even using one of those Norscott 1:25 scale diesel engines as a "ship power plant" flat car load.

Here we go again...

 

But in 'the land of G', it's G gauge, the distance between the rails that is common.  The scales of equipment made to ride thereon is where the confusion reigns.  It falls to what the gauge represents...3' (U.S. narrow gauge), 1 meter (European n.g.), 4'-8 1/2"(U.S. standard gauge), etc., etc., etc..

 

So, back to 'the land of O'...  O gauge within the U.S. 3-rail market is common.  The scale of equipment made to ride thereon is where the 'standard vs. traditional vs. semi-scale, vs. ???) comes in.  But, O scale in the U.S. is different than O scale in Europe (reflected in MTH's two offerings for the different markets, for instance.)

 

Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, blah, blah, blah.

 

Hey, you think it's confusing on this thread?....   Try explaining the miasma to the uninitiated customers (across the counter at our LHS) looking for seasonal gifts for little Johnny, sister Sue, grandpa Fred, Uncle Bruno,....who may or may not have accurately articulated what scale they have...much less what gauge they're invested in. 

 

Oh well, there's always a glass of wine at the end of the retail day.

 

KD

Scott..that table is a terrific idea...

All modeling is representational, no matter how "realistic" you try to make it.

 

Three rails?  Not scale.  You can run accurate 1:48 equipment, but it still ain't scale when the track has three rails and the wheel flanges must cater to that type of track.

 

Two rail O "gauge?"  Sorry, not scale, no matter how accurate the equipment the track is 3.5 scale inches too wide.

 

Closest possible to real scale is Proto48, but I notice there's no forum here for it.  I wonder why that is.   Could it be because it takes more skill and dedication than money to model so accurately?

 

Me?  I'm happy just to have my stuff represent.  If it wasn't for O-31 tinplate track I couldn't even have an O gauge setup.  Life is a compromise, best to not obsess about it.

 

Pete

 

Over the years, some of the mystery of different sizes has been addressed by forum members after someone has asked a question. Most notable was the photo showing a 6' man "O" figure offered by all the different makers. Hardly 2 were the same height. We also learn that MTH sitting figures, although on the small side, fit best in most passenger car interiors. We learn that semi-scale K-Line "Streamliner" cars are smaller in length/width/height, while MTH "Madison" semi-scale cars are just short in length.

Keep asking questions and you may avoid a mistake.

"G" gauge is down right comical when it comes to scale. American standard rail gauge has in itself at least three scales that I know of: MTH makes (or did when I was involved in "G") 1:32 which is "scale" for the rail width, Aristo Craft and USA Trains made 1:29, and LGB made 1:24 (I believe, but know they are larger than Aristo Craft and USA Trains). And I didn't even get into different gauges, e.g., 3 foot narrow gauge, 2 foot narrow gauge, and European 1 meter gauge.

 

At least with "O" gauge there seem to be only two different "scales", Traditional which appears quite a bit smaller than 1:43 and Scale which seems close to 1:43.

 

All in all "scale" life is much happier in "O" gauge, granted not perfect.

Althogh I have been a model railroader since I was 5 years old...When I got back into O 3 rail back 1993 I got burned on a number of online purchases before I learned the difference in scale and traditional. But even within 'Traditional'  there are different sizes. From a super small Lionel 'Baby Ruth' box car to an almost scale K-Line reefer.  O 3 rail is a mess scale wise....but G is the king of messes!

The only way to know for sure if an item is true 1/48 O scale is to hold it in your hand and measure its dimensions with a ruler.

With Atlas O Master Line and Trainman Line you can be pretty sure that they are 1/48 scale.

Atlas Industrial Line is not.

Pretty much everything Weaver has ever made is 1/48 scale.

MTH Premier Line is all 1/48 scale.

With Lionel, K-line, and MTH Railking, if you don't know and can't judge it with your eyeball, get out your ruler.

All good advise today....wish I had it back in 1993.....and didn't learn it all the hard way!!! ($$!!!)

A 2- railer perspective:

 

O Scale means 1/4" to the foot, and usually on five foot gauge track.

 

If an ad says O Scale, expect a larger model than one would expect for, say, O-27 or O Gauge, or Rail King, or Traditional, or any of those things.

 

I model in 17/64 Scale, O gauge, which means my track is really close to 4'8 1/2" gauge.

The only thing thats tough to do for us who live in the boondocks without a hobby shop for miles is to take a ruler to an advertisement..all I am saying is a better description from those who sell this stuff sure would avoid expensive pratfalls..sometimes I look at my collection and it resembles a one of those canister collections from the small to the mighty ..I have vowed to ask questions first..unless the Train Gods pull another stunt on me making me pull the trigger on an item that looks too good to pass up. 

I don't live in the boondocks. I'm right in the middle of Los Angeles but still have to drive hours to find the nearest train shop with a good 3R selection. So I buy based on what I can see in the image (ad, eBay, etc.). The Flash's G scale story is great. I recently got an MTH premier coal hopper that's just huge. If I were new I would have concluded G scale as well.

Thanks for the feedback on the table. Maybe I'll get one started and use forum member input to fill it out. As an engineer I make lots of tables . . . sigh. Would be nice to make on that's actually useful.

 

Scott