CSX going Bankrupt?

From what I've been reading, CP is not going to take CSX. If they did or even NS did, it would have to be called for CP - CPSX and for NS - CNSSX. Just something I thought of. But CSX is your other eastern half largest railroad outside of NS. Now sometimes you do see CP Intermodals on CSX tracks, but that's do to by like CP taking the CSX Erie West Sub in northeast Ohio, CP got trackage rights on CSX for faster shipments. Here's a video below I got last year in November 2014 from Perry Ohio of CSX Westbound Intermodal Q165 which is a CP train from Buffalo bound for Chicago. Since originally they had it go from Buffalo through Canada into Michigan and into Toledo or Indiana for Chicago. But as for NS and CP, it won't happen now. But you never know 20 to 30 years from now. But even then, it probably won't. But I do see possibly W&LE / Wheeling & Lake Erie someday becoming Class 1.

Curt, that's what I thought. CSX, NS, UP, & BNSF are still and going to be your Class 1 railroads. But I do say like I just mentioned above in the top, with the way W&LE is going, I won't be the least bit surprised that one day, W&LE will be a Class 1 Railroad and expand more. Look at this map...  http://www.wlerwy.com/wp-conte...014/02/SystemMap.jpg    Don't know if that's current, but it sure shows growth for W&LE.

Having just spent several days among the locals in West Virginia, I can assure you that many are convinced that this current administration is determined to shut down coal mining at any/every opportunity. It is very sad to see the closed mines and rusting facilities, as well as the loss of livelihood by many of the locals.

All the roads are starting to feel the pinch. UP is building a pull-thru yard here in Sioux City and just lost a new Trinity car cleaning facility. As we are on the north-south BNSF route, we see a lot or should say we SAW a good increase in coal from Powder River and North Dakota oil.

UP pulled 3 to 4 train loads of coal a week here for Mid American Energy (Owned by Buffett) One plant is being closed in favor of natural gas.

It is starting to slow down.

Dick 

Sioux City, IA

Having just spent several days among the locals in West Virginia, I can assure you that many are convinced that this current administration is determined to shut down coal mining at any/every opportunity.

Perhaps the only thing worse than a dishonest politician is one who is as good as his word.  This is what then Senator Obama said to the San Francisco Chronicle in January 2008.

If somebody wants to build a coal powered plant they can.  It's just that it will bankrupt them because they're going to be charged a huge sum for all the greenhouse gas that's being emitted.

While the regulatory scheme that the EPA is imposing is different that what the president envisioned in 2008 the result is the same as he intended.  As laming saw in West Virginia:

It is very sad to see the closed mines and rusting facilities, as well as the loss of livelihood by many of the locals.

Job loss is a reality for in the coal business as well as in coal transportation be it at CSX, UN, NS, BNSF or regional railroads. 

Railroads are doing well in two areas, oil and intermodal.  However, the reasons for the rail traffic points out bigger problems.  Oil should move to pipelines for greater efficiency and safety but federal regulators are preventing it.  Intermodal is moving to rail because of more stringent federal trucking regulations and the fact that the federal highways have not seen significant investment in about 40 years.

Anyone notice that a word beginning if F keeps coming up?

And we haven't even mentioned PTC, FRA or the FCC.  

It is starting to slow down.

This could be a rocky year for railroads and the economy in general.

Chance of Financial Distress for CSX is 42%

     See link below......

https://www.macroaxis.com/inve...bility-Of-Bankruptcy

Gary - Cheers from The Detroit and Mackinac Railway

  Click artwork to enlarge

I heard they are moving all their operations to China. 

Let's put the mercury and other heavy metal deposits directly in the water supply of people who moan about the lost jobs and the out of control Federal regulations, and the coal ash can pile up in those same people's back yard right next to the brand new Mercedes sitting in the driveway--the railroad could make a real nice buck hauling trainloads of that gunk from Duke energy over to their property

Jobs are great. I like jobs. People need jobs. I feel for the out of work miners. But don't kid yourself--some jobs come with a huge environmental price tag, and it's really amusing how nobody wants to pay the real price for "cheap", dirty energy. 

The sad fact is that many of the people moaning and groaning about the lost jobs in this scenario (and blaming Obama for all their problems) are the same people who would lay off every coal miner and railroad worker on earth if they could--if it would help increase the value of their stock portfolio a few percent. Those miners are pawns in a much bigger game. An economy based on natural resources is often a zero sum situation, and every dollar of profit leaves a dirty footprint somewhere.

Jeff C

I read an article in a recent Railfan & Railroad magazine last night that said CSX just set 3 all time profit records in 2Q 2015. Didn't sound like bankruptcy was in their future anytime soon. Fracking and cheaper natural gas has played a large role in the decline of coal use, possibly a much larger role than the POTUS.

CSX is not going bankrupt. Not sure where you would come up with that.

Business levels in the railroad industry have been at all-time highs for several years.

As rtr12 mentions, it's the good old free market - namely, the price of natural gas - that is driving the slowdown in the coal industry.  But there's never a shortage of politicians who want you to believe that more sinister forces are at work.

Agree 100% with the Professor. Power companies are going to nat gas for cost, and it is less polluting. 

Oh, and logically speaking, when United/Delta kicked out their CEO, they took the CSX CEO. Don't think they would have recruited someone from a company about to go bankrupt!

Interesting article in the Jan. 2015 issue of Trains Magazine by Michael W. Blaszak, "Is there still an urge to merge." The article explains that CSX and CP are not going to merge.   

Aside from the uneducated supposition that many of us are large stockholders and financially affluent, here's a fact that many will learn firsthand: 

Increased demand for natural gas will result in what? Correct: Higher prices of natural gas.

And where will that cost be passed to?

1. The power plant will pass it to the electric utility companies.

2. The electric utility companies will pass it to the consumer.

3. The home using natural gas will also see rises in the cost of their natural gas billing.

Result: The consumer will pee and moan about higher utility prices and have less disposable income, said peeing and moaning individuals including the "greenies" that currently hoot and holler about such a great "change".

And just who would be doing the "significant investment" in highways?  Oh yeah, the Federal Government. 

But Texas has a better idea, refuse federal highway funding and just tear up roads in disrepair.

I'm wondering if our young high school friend was just trolling, i.e. threw it out to watch everybody's response? Notice he generally doesn't return to the "discussion".

I do not see a CSX and Norfolk Southern merger anytime soon.  They serve more or less the same markets and it would remove competition. 

Let's put the mercury and other heavy metal deposits directly in the water supply of people who moan about the lost jobs

Jeff

Why would you want to do that? 

Do you actually know, or even know of, anyone who has potentially harmful levels of mercury in their drinking water?

It is an awful big leap to go from people being employed mining and moving coal to people getting poisoned with mercury.  While their might be genuine concern for people from some it often seems that there are others who make the most of something that sounds scary. There just isn't data to support the notion that making electricity with coal will mean people get poisoned.

Every public water system in the US monitors for mercury and other heavy metals.  State departments of health and the Federal EPA (the Feds!) track the data.  If levels exceed that which might cause harm from long term exposure the water system will have to improve their treatment or use an alternate source.

If anyone really is concerned about mercury in drinking water you can read about it from the Federal government here:

http://water.epa.gov/drink/con...tion/mercury.cfm#six

i have no idea why anyone would think csx/ns would merge....they have almost identical lines...a "merger" would drive up operating costs for both companys....-Jim

A friend of mine is a CSX engineer here on the east coast out of Philly. He told me, Trash and Intermodal is their biggest hauls. HE said the merger rumor has been a rumor for a long time and laughed..

A better question is why is CSX stock value so much lower than say NS who for the most part is CSX chief competitor, close to the same route miles, same amount of volume, same revenue(I'm guessing on those last few points but I thought I read that somewhere)? 

As of right now the stock values are.

CSX 25.99

NS 74.97

UP 85.32

CP 137.63

Sounds like what happened in Britain when Maggie Thatcher was PM. She was tired of the inefficiency of the National Coal Board. The union stepped in with their head Arthur Scargill. There was a violent strike with people attacking cops and vice versa. Maggie then shut the mines down and the towns were never the same afterwards. When she died,people were celebrating singing "Ding Dong,The Witch Is Dead". See the musical "Billy Elliott" because the strikes are in the background.

Hot Water:

"I'm wondering if our young high school friend was just trolling, i.e. threw it out to watch everybody's response? Notice he generally doesn't return to the "discussion"."

I suspect his head is spinning from the impassioned response. 

Superwarp1:

"A better question is why is CSX stock value so much lower than say NS..."

Doesn't that have to do with the number of shares issued? CSX may have a much larger number of shares in the market than NS. I don't know...just asking. 

This. People freak out because they think their Subway sandwich bread is made from the same chemicals as yoga mats or that their McDonald's burger is processed "pink slime", but at the risk of introducing heavy metals into the local environment they plug their ears. I'm not against coal, but we have to maintain an effort to protect our environment, not only for ourselves but for future generations. Acid mine drainage is a serious issue which can ruin ecology.

Canadian National is 55.05

KCS is 87.73

So, when compared to Canadian Pacific, by definition of stock price, they're all going bankrupt...

A hi-tech company I used to work for had stock in the 60-70 dollar range 15 years ago, now it's around the 3-4 dollar range and they're still not bankrupt...  Of course, they shed about 70% of their work force over the years...

Rusty

Comparing the price of a share of stock in various companies in the same industry tells you absolutely nothing about the relative value of the companies being compared. The price of a share of stock depends on the number of shares issued (and a lot of other things, too.)

In an overly simplified example, let's say there are two companies, each worth $1 million.

Company A has issued 10,000 shares of their stock, so each share is worth $100.

Company B has issued only 5,000 shares, so each of their shares is worth $200.

Same company value, two different stock prices.

Amazing! Please elaborate, i.e. A) what kind of coal? B) how is it delivered & stored? C) how do you burn it (furnace, open fireplace, coal stove)? (what is the price per ton, delivered? D) what do you do with the ash/cinders?

"Let's put the mercury and other heavy metal deposits directly in the water supply of people who moan about the lost jobs and the out of control Federal regulations, and the coal ash can pile up in those same people's back yard right next to the brand new Mercedes sitting in the driveway-"

   Great points, while coal jobs are fewer other  guys are making good money installing windmills out here in Cali. Keeping old inefficient technology for the jobs needs to be balanced with the costs to everyone as a whole. We're in a new era of surplus workers so need a new plan as to how everyone can have a decent life. The coal is not going anywhere so if it becomes more attractive than the alternatives at some point we'll still be able to mine it.

And I suppose the everyone and thing that lives downhill from you just loves the toxic sludge they end up with after rains and snow wash it from your pile out back?

And Rich, thanks for elaborating the most basic difference between stock price and value.