I understand that the prices have gone up for people who placed an order with 3rd Rail ERR since the orders were placed. Does the current order form on the site reflect the new prices ? J
Original Post
Replies sorted oldest to newest
Despite their website, there is no way to know what you will pay at today’s ERR unless you specifically ask them ahead of time . I recently ordered a sound kit which was listed as $89.95. After the pshycological 95 cent pricing worked to their advantage, I chose to make a purchase. Then they were kind enough to round it up to $90.00 and then add on $20 shipping (for a small flat rate box that only cost about $7). This unexpectedly high shipping cost was not disclosed on their website. Therefore, I paid $110 for a sound kit.
For perspective, about ten years ago, an ERR sound kit was $49.95 plus $5 shipping. That is less than 1/2 the current cost. In fact, they used to sell combo kits which included an AC commander and sound kit for $114.95.
GregR posted:Despite their website, there is no way to know what you will pay at today’s ERR unless you specifically ask them ahead of time . I recently ordered a sound kit which was listed as $89.95. After the pshycological 95 cent pricing worked to their advantage, I chose to make a purchase. Then they were kind enough to round it up to $90.00 and then add on $20 shipping (for a small flat rate box that only cost about $7). This unexpectedly high shipping cost was not disclosed on their website. Therefore, I paid $110 for a sound kit.
For perspective, about ten years ago, an ERR sound kit was $49.95 plus $5 shipping. That is less than 1/2 the current cost. In fact, they used to sell combo kits which included an AC commander and sound kit for $114.95.
Thanks GREGR, Guess one has to ask the question. Did ERR ever pay it's own way or did Lionel keep it afloat as a good will gesture to us. "USPS FLAT RATE BOXES". The only time they save money is when you ship rocks. If your shipping anything other than rocks use you own box and save. Perhaps 3rd Rail ERR has a one size fits all shipping policy. One could put a lot of TMCC boards in a small flat rate box. Lets face it aftermarket TMCC boards are never going to be anything other than a Niche Market. Others have tried this market and not fared so well either. j
JohnActon posted:Lets face it aftermarket TMCC boards are never going to be anything other than a Niche Market. Others have tried this market and not fared so well either. j
Actually they would have fared just fine if Lionel hadn't either put the squeeze on them (Digital Dynamics) or bought them out (ERR, TAS). The only way this will work is if Lionel simply sells the License in a one time deal. To demand a piece from every product sold will never allow the price to come down or a new innovator to develop their own compatible system much like DCC. Back EMF and smaller boards like the DD Motor Mite came along without Lionel's help.
Pete
That's the one thing I don't like about 3rdrail how they gouge on shipping. Now doing the same on ERR products.
I think some include labor, materials, as well as actual shipping costs. And some include it in the overhead which is often 15 to 20 percent of the gross receipts I heard once. I think the fellow said "It costs me 15 to 20 % just to unlock the door in the morning in this store".
If you think about it though, shipping is an incredible bargain. That something can come across the country in 2 or 3 days right to your door step. Think of all the handling, trucking, air freight, and so on.
Whenever I can, I ship stuff First Class mail. Many small packages up to 5-6 ounces go for around $2.70. Even adding in the cost of shipping boxes and labels, it's still far cheaper then even the USPS Priority Small Flat Rate Box cost.
As far as shipping a quantity of product, Chuck has a point. When you're shipping lots of orders, you end up with an accounting nightmare if you have to calculate individual shipping costs for each package. Then there's the issue of insurance, when I send something pricey, I do add insurance.
Wonder how long before 3rd rail decides this wasn't worth the effort with all the complaining.
For vendors that have pricey shipping costs, I usually wait until I need to order additional items, so the shipping cost more reasonably matches the order size. If the shipping cost is high and the item is a nice to have, I just don't buy it.
There are many items I have wanted, be it for my layout or other interest. But when I feel the shipping charges are outrageous, I do without.
I'm glad 3rd Rail took over a needed, much needed, system for upgrading or repairing sound and control. I expected a price increase for whatever reasoning, but the shipping charges are what really stunned me.
I have questioned some mail order companies when their shipping charges are really high and have received replies from having to pay for the cartons, wrapping, tape, or pay someone to pull, package and ship. I would think someone into mail order business would have configured that all into their profit margin, and not doubled profit by also adding a profit to shipping charges. As to the new Priority boxes which I have used to ship small items which I make, not railroad related. I get the small priority boxes free and ship items for around 6.50. They're not the flat rate boxes.
MartyE posted:Wonder how long before 3rd rail decides this wasn't worth the effort with all the complaining.
Well, if it's priced so I no one can afford it, the entire effort was pointless, wasn't it?
josef posted:I get the small priority boxes free and ship items for around 6.50. They're not the flat rate boxes.
The Priority boxes that are not flat rate have a variable rate, and $6.50 is for closer zones. The cheapest shipping if local, that's $6.70 for priority mail, that goes to $8.45 across the country. The small Flat Rate Box is $7.20.
However, the First Class rate is best for small packages. I ship a lot of stuff for $3 or less.
Attachments
gunrunnerjohn posted:josef posted:I get the small priority boxes free and ship items for around 6.50. They're not the flat rate boxes.
The Priority boxes that are not flat rate have a variable rate, and $6.50 is for closer zones. The cheapest shipping if local, that's $6.70 for priority mail, that goes to $8.45 across the country. The small Flat Rate Box is $7.20.
However, the First Class rate is best for small packages. I ship a lot of stuff for $3 or less.
Thanks. I knew, just generalized. But those that buy from me, like the Priority and insurance that comes with the postage also. Since the items are in the 25.00 to 50.00 range. Priority shipping/insurance coverage, covers it for me and customers. I charge a flat 6.75 shipping.
MartyE posted:Wonder how long before 3rd rail decides this wasn't worth the effort with all the complaining.
Probably won'tbe too long, Marty. Scott will likely evaluate the situation carefully and then determine if this attempt to assist those in the hobby who were clamoring/pleading/begging for these boards (as evidenced by earlier threads on this forum and others) is even worth the effort
Extremely good Point Mr. Allen Miller, as it hasn't been that long ago, as you say, Begging/Clamoring/Pleading, that someone keep this product going....Well they have, and that is why they call it a.... BUSINESS.................Fact !
Well, the clamoring was for the ERR product which included a value that was compatible with making some sense upgrading a non-tmcc engine. Now that the cost has about doubled, upgrading may not make sense. I think that is the frustration.
The price went up a notch, but not quite double. 
One way around the shipping as previously mentioned, order a larger quantity of boards. The Cruise Commander, for instance, went up $10 from $119.95 to $129.95. That's probably the highest volume board I use. The RailSounds Commander went up only $5 I believe.
I think my biggest disappointment is some of the stuff that isn't there, and I'm hopefully that a few of the more popular ERR products that aren't in the list can be added at some point in the future.
Another point is Scott is probably getting hammered on the startup costs of a new product line, so we need to cut him a little slack.
cjack posted:Now that the cost has about doubled, upgrading may not make sense.
That may well be true. I can't really say because I don't have any motive power in need of an upgrade. I guess it's something that only individual consumers will have to make on a case-by-case basis, and the marketplace for the product will determine whether or not it continues to be offered.
Allan, surely you can find something to stick some electronics into! 
Let's not believe the "fake news" that ERR prices have doubled. The one post that mentions that "fact" is by GREGR (second post in this thread) who said:
"For perspective, about ten years ago, an ERR sound kit was $49.95 plus $5 shipping. That is less than 1/2 the current cost. In fact, they used to sell combo kits which included an AC commander and sound kit for $114.95."
The ERR sound kit from 10 years ago was the "Sound Commander" which in no way had the sound quality of the current RailSounds product. The chuff and whistle were pretty rudimentary, sort of like the old MTH LocoSound. I had a few and replaced them with RailSounds Commanders once they became available. Also, the AC commander has no cruise so it is also not a fair comparison to a Cruise Commander.
Compared to the latest ERR price list I have (pdf attached), the Cruise Commander has gone up 8.3%, Cruise Commander M's up 17.6%, RailSounds Diesel up 5.9% and Railsounds Steam the same price they used to be. The largest price increases were the AC and DC Commanders without cruise which are up 28.6%.
Shipping sounds like it has gone up vs. the flat $5 that ERR used to charge.
Attachments
Files (1)
Bob posted:Let's not believe the "fake news" that ERR prices have doubled. The one post that mentions that "fact" is by GREGR (second post in this thread) who said:
"For perspective, about ten years ago, an ERR sound kit was $49.95 plus $5 shipping. That is less than 1/2 the current cost. In fact, they used to sell combo kits which included an AC commander and sound kit for $114.95."
The ERR sound kit from 10 years ago was the "Sound Commander" which in no way had the sound quality of the current RailSounds product. The chuff and whistle were pretty rudimentary, sort of like the old MTH LocoSound. I had a few and replaced them with RailSounds Commanders once they became available. Also, the AC commander has no cruise so it is also not a fair comparison to a Cruise Commander.
Compared to the latest ERR price list I have (pdf attached), the Cruise Commander has gone up 8.3%, Cruise Commander M's up 17.6%, RailSounds Diesel up 5.9% and Railsounds Steam the same price they used to be. The largest price increases were the AC and DC Commanders without cruise which are up 28.6%.
Shipping sounds like it has gone up vs. the flat $5 that ERR used to charge.
Sorry, that post was what I was thinking about when I misspoke. 
Gents,
I actually am enjoying the ERR biz. It's very successful. Great product, easy to sell. We've sold out of most of the stock that ERR had sold us back in June. It took about 2 months to get up to speed. Figuring out all the little parts and pieces that go into each kit. Where to order screws, nuts, wire harnesses etc.
I've put a large order into the manufacturer of the circuit boards and prices on my lists will hold as long as a Tariff isn't imposed. Any additional costs of importing these will be passed on. If it's 25%, then add 25% to the prices you see. We reserve the right to change prices, just as you have the right to not purchase.
S&H, we pad it a little. Each purchase through paypal costs us 3% so that's the H in S&H. For customers with 1/2 of their order received and the other 1/2 back ordered, they already paid $20 S&H, and will get the other 1/2 of their order without S&H. Seems fair?
If you don't want to pay these prices or S&H, go to one of the many dealers that carry these items. You might find the few bucks your trying to save ordering with them. We make extra money selling them direct, but there is more work involved in the process.
I hired a great tech, Robert Lopez. He's very familiar with ERR kits and has been instrumental in getting us up to speed so quickly. THANKS ROBERT.
We hope to receive the new order of Cruise M, Cruise Commanders and AC/DC Commanders in shortly. But I don't have a solid schedule, only that they are working on it. I am afraid we have not received permission to sell any of the other boards ERR used to sell, i.e. MiniCommanders, Cruise Lite, etc. We have asked, and the answer was just one word, no.
I read your comments, good and bad, and try to improve based on the one's that makes sense.
Enjoy your hobby.
gunrunnerjohn posted:Allan, surely you can find something to stick some electronics into!
Now that I think about it, you may be right, John! I do have a few small, conventionally powered, U.S. Army switchers of various configurations, (postwar and later repros) that I wouldn't mind being able to use, if possible, not to mention some 520 boxcabs.
sdmann posted:Gents,
I actually am enjoying the ERR biz. It's very successful. Great product, easy to sell. We've sold out of most of the stock that ERR had sold us back in June. It took about 2 months to get up to speed. Figuring out all the little parts and pieces that go into each kit. Where to order screws, nuts, wire harnesses etc.
I've put a large order into the manufacturer of the circuit boards and prices on my lists will hold as long as a Tariff isn't imposed. Any additional costs of importing these will be passed on. If it's 25%, then add 25% to the prices you see. We reserve the right to change prices, just as you have the right to not purchase.
S&H, we pad it a little. Each purchase through paypal costs us 3% so that's the H in S&H. For customers with 1/2 of their order received and the other 1/2 back ordered, they already paid $20 S&H, and will get the other 1/2 of their order without S&H. Seems fair?
If you don't want to pay these prices or S&H, go to one of the many dealers that carry these items. You might find the few bucks your trying to save ordering with them. We make extra money selling them direct, but there is more work involved in the process.
I hired a great tech, Robert Lopez. He's very familiar with ERR kits and has been instrumental in getting us up to speed so quickly. THANKS ROBERT.
We hope to receive the new order of Cruise M, Cruise Commanders and AC/DC Commanders in shortly. But I don't have a solid schedule, only that they are working on it. I am afraid we have not received permission to sell any of the other boards ERR used to sell, i.e. MiniCommanders, Cruise Lite, etc. We have asked, and the answer was just one word, no.
I read your comments, good and bad, and try to improve based on the one's that makes sense.
Enjoy your hobby.
Thanks for the reply and also about some Dealers carrying them. Reply shows your customers concerns and reasoning behind pricing. Now if the biggies would show as much. Again, thanks for replying.
Allan Miller posted:gunrunnerjohn posted:Allan, surely you can find something to stick some electronics into!
Now that I think about it, you may be right, John! I do have a few small, conventionally powered, U.S. Army switchers of various configurations, (postwar and later repros) that I wouldn't mind being able to use, if possible, not to mention some 520 boxcabs.
That's the spirit!
gunrunnerjohn posted:Whenever I can, I ship stuff First Class mail. Many small packages up to 5-6 ounces go for around $2.70. Even adding in the cost of shipping boxes and labels, it's still far cheaper then even the USPS Priority Small Flat Rate Box cost.
When I go to USPS some pages give 13oz max weight for First Class Package however when I use PayPal shipping service or ship through eBay their shipping calculator doesn't push you out of first class till you go above 16oz. In addition they both give about 40% off USPS counter prices. It can be very hard to find PayPal's shipping page this link should get you there. In both cases you provide your own boxes. Which is good since I never ship rocks or lead shot. John I can never find the non flat rate boxes perhaps their behind the counter. Here in the greater Birmingham AL area, I use three different post offices depending which direction I am headed. All the flat rate boxes I see are Priority whether small medium or large. I can find no variable rate boxes of any size or class. There again perhaps their behind the counter and I am unwilling to stand in a line twelve people deep and one clerk on the counter. j
There are Priority boxes which are not Flat Rate. They look just like the Flat Rate Priority boxes but without the word Flat Rate (edited) on them. Other boxes like for 1st class, you have to buy from them.
JohnActon posted:gunrunnerjohn posted:Whenever I can, I ship stuff First Class mail. Many small packages up to 5-6 ounces go for around $2.70. Even adding in the cost of shipping boxes and labels, it's still far cheaper then even the USPS Priority Small Flat Rate Box cost.
When I go to USPS some pages give 13oz max weight for First Class Package however when I use PayPal shipping service or ship through eBay their shipping calculator doesn't push you out of first class till you go above 16oz. In addition they both give about 40% off USPS counter prices. It can be very hard to find PayPal's shipping page this link should get you there. In both cases you provide your own boxes. Which is good since I never ship rocks or lead shot. John I can never find the non flat rate boxes perhaps their behind the counter. Here in the greater Birmingham AL area, I use three different post offices depending which direction I am headed. All the flat rate boxes I see are Priority whether small medium or large. I can find no variable rate boxes of any size or class. There again perhaps their behind the counter and I am unwilling to stand in a line twelve people deep and one clerk on the counter. j
Sometime you will get lucky and walk into a Post Office without a line. The Post Office used to have rolls of priority stickers and tape that you can put on any box or envelope. They might have some for you. They might also have the regular priority boxes.
The reason that the only boxes in the lobby are Flat Rate boxes is that the Post Office makes tons of money on the flat rates. The only time the shipper gets a break on a flat rate box is if the item is very heavy. Otherwise, it is cheaper to use your own box and send it priority or parcel post. NH Joe
I buy little boxes for around 15-20 cents each.
As far as USPS boxes, you simply login to a USPS account, then select Shipping supplies, and then Free. All the sizes of Priority boxes will be there, and they arrive magically at your house for nothing.
Attachments
AS Scott stated, there are reasons for each increase. As he also stated, try out the dealers for better rates. I have used Royz Trains and DCC Hobbies for ERR products. I know Royz discounts for multiple items in same purchase.
Jesse TCA 12-68275
So many trains.... so little time...… LOVE IT !!!
Come on now. Enough is enough. Some here need to find another hobby. Shipping costs money. Point blank. I’m so happy the ERR products are still available regardless of shipping. If you’re going to compare an upgrade to purchasing new then the upgrade will most likely lose out. But, the enjoyment of resurrecting a shelf queen to run along with the new stuff is a very enjoyable accomplishment.
Well, I didn't know that first class through Paypal was cheapest. The only problem is there is no tracking and with over $100 in each little box, I want to make sure it got to where it was supposed to go. It's all good info.
Scott
I send all my small packages 1st class with tracking. For a box that would hold one Cruise Commander and one Railsounds board the cost is usually under 5 bucks. Packages sent from and to east of the Mississippi usually arrive in two days.
The best deal on large packages the size of a locomotive, FEDEX ground is the best deal currently. Less than 2/3rds of USPS.
Pete
sdmann posted:Well, I didn't know that first class through Paypal was cheapest. The only problem is there is no tracking and with over $100 in each little box, I want to make sure it got to where it was supposed to go. It's all good info.
Scott
Actually Scott, there is tracking with First Class shipments through PP. I was shipping a bunch of 11 oz things through PP, and the total shipping bill with $100 insurance was $6.36.
Obviously, you have to add the handling time, the box, and the label costs, and I do realize all of those things affect the bottom line.
I realize that many firms pick both a shipping company and a shipping method as their "standard", and that makes perfect sense in a volume environment. Given that fact, it may make more sense for 3rd Rail to simply ship everything with Priority insured, that simplifies the handling of the shipping task. You also get free boxes.
New Haven Joe posted:Sometime you will get lucky and walk into a Post Office without a line. The Post Office used to have rolls of priority stickers and tape that you can put on any box or envelope. They might have some for you. They might also have the regular priority boxes.
The reason that the only boxes in the lobby are Flat Rate boxes is that the Post Office makes tons of money on the flat rates. The only time the shipper gets a break on a flat rate box is if the item is very heavy. Otherwise, it is cheaper to use your own box and send it priority or parcel post. NH Joe
You can have all my stickers whether there's a line or not. I'll print my labels and the class mail I choose will be on the labels when they come out of the printer .
That's why I always use Flat Rate boxes when I ship bricks. j
I am afraid we have not received permission to sell any of the other boards ERR used to sell, i.e. MiniCommanders, Cruise Lite, etc. We have asked, and the answer was just one word, no.
That's really a shame. I like the mini commanders a lot. I've upgraded several older motorized units with them. They give new life to those units on a command layout (Speeders, track inspection cars, etc...) I also have used them to upgrade operating cars (Hot box refers, unloading barrel cars, etc...) I had plans to upgrade more cars as well - the new freight sound cars, older smoking cabooses. Its nice to have the ability to turn off those cars with the remote.
I can't understand the business logic behind it, especially if there is demand for the product. Hopefully Lionel will change their mind at some point.
sdmann posted:Gents,
I actually am enjoying the ERR biz. It's very successful. Great product, easy to sell. We've sold out of most of the stock that ERR had sold us back in June. It took about 2 months to get up to speed. Figuring out all the little parts and pieces that go into each kit. Where to order screws, nuts, wire harnesses etc.
I've put a large order into the manufacturer of the circuit boards and prices on my lists will hold as long as a Tariff isn't imposed. Any additional costs of importing these will be passed on. If it's 25%, then add 25% to the prices you see. We reserve the right to change prices, just as you have the right to not purchase.
S&H, we pad it a little. Each purchase through paypal costs us 3% so that's the H in S&H. For customers with 1/2 of their order received and the other 1/2 back ordered, they already paid $20 S&H, and will get the other 1/2 of their order without S&H. Seems fair?
If you don't want to pay these prices or S&H, go to one of the many dealers that carry these items. You might find the few bucks your trying to save ordering with them. We make extra money selling them direct, but there is more work involved in the process.
I hired a great tech, Robert Lopez. He's very familiar with ERR kits and has been instrumental in getting us up to speed so quickly. THANKS ROBERT.
We hope to receive the new order of Cruise M, Cruise Commanders and AC/DC Commanders in shortly. But I don't have a solid schedule, only that they are working on it. I am afraid we have not received permission to sell any of the other boards ERR used to sell, i.e. MiniCommanders, Cruise Lite, etc. We have asked, and the answer was just one word, no.
I read your comments, good and bad, and try to improve based on the one's that makes sense.
Enjoy your hobby.
Scott. Thanks for taking over this. I'm glad to hear you are enjoying the ERR business. I haven't ordered anything since you have taken over since right now my financial situation doesn't allow. I hope to hear in the near future place an order. I have quite a few projects to finish.
Again thank you Scott.
I too am disappointed that the Mini-2 and the Cruise lite are not among the boards that will be available, these are perfect for S gauge. Will 3rd Rail be selling any of the Rail Sounds boards or are these also out of bounds?
Ray
Ray, if you look at the 3rd Rail Reservation Page, you'll see that they already offer all the ERR RailSounds boards that were previously available.
So, based on that, and the fact that I've already received a bunch of them, the answer is obviously YES.
Good to hear that you got some Rail Sounds boards, but I ordered one RS board which I have not received, also ordered some C L boards that were on the reservation list which I guess Lionel will not let 3rd Rail sell, that is why I questioned about the sound boards.
Ray
