Custom Painting Legacy H10 to PRR - 9/17/20

Great project.  Looking forward to following your progress.

See if Lionel has the shells in stock?

Multiple questions, please:

1. In what document did you find that paint guide?

2. Any idea what "front end paint" color is?

3. Any idea what "sash color" is?

PRR fans would really like to know.

Chuck

The Western Allegheny engines were PRR engines.  So were the Western Allegheny Caboose.  

PRR1950 posted:

Multiple questions, please:

1. In what document did you find that paint guide?

2. Any idea what "front end paint" color is?

3. Any idea what "sash color" is?

PRR fans would really like to know.

Chuck

1. I found it in the "Lionel E6 Color off?" thread (https://ogrforum.com/.../lionel-e6-color-off) about 3/4 of the way down. The person who posted it originally said it came from a PRRT&HS reproduction of a PRR paint guide from 1929.

2, 3. I don't know what exactly "front end paint" and "sash color" are so I'll have to approximate. For the front end color I plan to use Scalecoat I Smokebox Gray. As long as it's better than the silver from before, I'd be satisfied. As for the sash color, I'm still thinking about what I'll use for that. It'll be either plain Scalecoat freight car red or oxide red. It's rather small, so it's not a huge deal to me.

David Minarik posted:

The Western Allegheny engines were PRR engines.  So were the Western Allegheny Caboose.  

I know, but my goal was to have an engine that was actually lettered for Pennsy. From what I've seen the Western Allegheny definitely seems like a really interesting shortline, but it's not what I'm modelling.

Lehigh Valley Railroad posted:

See if Lionel has the shells in stock?

At least for the Lines West version, they do have shells in stock, but at almost $200, it's cheaper to buy the paints and decals to do this custom project.

I have the "original," TMCC H-10. With a passenger pilot.Like the new Legacy version.  Can any PRR foamer enlighten me, or should I just whack it off and put on footboards?

PRR painting and lettering standards changed noticeably over the decades - particularly the years before and after WWII.  The best piece of advice I can give is to pick the era you would like to represent and then use prototype photos to guide your work.    On steam locomotives the easiest era specific spotting feature is the spacing of the PENNSYLVANIA on the tender.  Tightly spaced letters prior to the war - wider spaced ones during and after the war. (For a  very short period around 1940 the font standard was Futura - a very different look).  Until 1952, the standard color for lettering was dulux (a mustard like yellow) for freight, and gold for passenger power.  In March 1952 a new standard was published and from that point on passenger locomotives  (and cars) in for painting were done with dulux lettering.  In postwar color photos few cab roof show as being painted red, nor dare the window sashes.  However several PRR locomotives were gussied up that way for fan trips. It is also possible that some outlying engine houses occasionally ignored revised standards for a period of time after they were issued.  Champ made both gold and dulux PRR locomotive lettering set, as well as ones with different letter spacing.  My go to lettering for PRR steam locomotives is Clover House dry transfers - no decal film to hide.

Check out this link for some paint guidance:  http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/PRRPaint.html

Keystoned Ed posted:

PRR painting and lettering standards changed noticeably over the decades - particularly the years before and after WWII.  The best piece of advice I can give is to pick the era you would like to represent and then use prototype photos to guide your work.    On steam locomotives the easiest era specific spotting feature is the spacing of the PENNSYLVANIA on the tender.  Tightly spaced letters prior to the war - wider spaced ones during and after the war. (For a  very short period around 1940 the font standard was Futura - a very different look).  Until 1952, the standard color for lettering was dulux (a mustard like yellow) for freight, and gold for passenger power.  In March 1952 a new standard was published and from that point on passenger locomotives  (and cars) in for painting were done with dulux lettering.  In postwar color photos few cab roof show as being painted red, nor dare the window sashes.  However several PRR locomotives were gussied up that way for fan trips. It is also possible that some outlying engine houses occasionally ignored revised standards for a period of time after they were issued.  Champ made both gold and dulux PRR locomotive lettering set, as well as ones with different letter spacing.  My go to lettering for PRR steam locomotives is Clover House dry transfers - no decal film to hide.

Check out this link for some paint guidance:  http://www.angelfire.com/film/prrpics/PRRPaint.html

Thanks, Ed, for your insight. The era I'm going for is 1944-ish, so it sounds like my original vision for the repaint project from the start matches that almost perfectly.

Sounds like from the website that the "Freight Car Red" Scalecoat makes represents the later red, rather than the lighter red used on PRR steam. Would Oxide Red be a better option?

The red paint used by the PRR prior to the 1950’s tended to fade toward a lighter color with time. Spray some oxide red on a used coke can and see if you like the look compared with color photos you’ve found.   The PRRT&HS had a study committee to proscribe custom railroad paint mixes for colors such as  freight car color and Tuscan Red and DGLE.    As I recall they ended up with several different shades based on the era.  IMO the biggest variable in color on PRR  locomotives is the degree of weathering.

Sorry for the long wait on an update. The paint from Scalecoat took a while to deliver, for obvious reasons, and that delayed the start of my project for a while.

I began with the cab roof and rear tender deck this morning. The red turned out to be a bit lighter than I wanted so I'll be going back over later with a second, darker coat.

The Scalecoat paint also dries to a gloss finish which I'm not particularly fond of, so I'll give a shot at adding a matte finish on top to not only help seal the paint but maybe tone down the gloss too. Thankfully the smokebox gray is already supposed to dry to a flat finish so that'll be resources saved on my end.

Also, I've decided to make the cab roof and rear tender deck the same shade of red. I know that's technically incorrect, but I think it would just look too awkward for me or another viewer of the layout looking down at the engine and seeing that the two shades of red are different. Plus, most people who come to see my layout are not railroad people, so they wouldn't know that it's incorrect anyway. I felt I would be happier with the final product if I made the two the same color. And besides, being happy is what this hobby's all about, isn't it?

I will show photos once I'm done with the second coat.

Nick,

Looking forward to seeing the finished product.  If you have not added a cab number yet, I would recommend you add a H9 cab number.  While the Lionel box says H10, the snifters on top of the cylinders makes it a H9.  Just a thought.

Hello everyone,

Hope you’re doing well, as always.

More progress has been made on the engine in the past week. I applied the second and final coat of red on the cab roof and tender deck. I chose to go with the original red instead of mixing it with another brand of paint, since I didn’t order a Scalecoat Black and didn’t have the patience to wait another 3 weeks for it to arrive in the mail. Plus, the original red has grown on me. All that’s left to do is apply the matte coat over top. Very proud of the final product.

You might also notice that I’ve painted the bell yolk and part of the whistle detail. For the whistle, I masked the bowl and bell part and sprayed it with a quick coat of paint. The whistle didn’t quite want to fit in the hole afterwards, so I had to use the stick of a paint brush to get it in place. This scratched off a bit of the paint so I went back and touched up the paint by hand.

The bell yolk I was able to do completely by hand without any masking. Pretty simple work, and I’m very happy with the final product. Definitely an improvement in my book.

Before

After

Still left to do is apply the gray on the smokebox, decal the engine for PRR, and install cab window glass.

Hello everyone,

My apologies about not posting about the project in the past couple of months. I've been busy traveling this summer and I haven't really found much time to work on the engine.

I painted the smokebox and exposed portion of the firebox gray a few weeks back. It's finally closer to what I always wanted, but it definitely requires a second coat, hence why I'm not showing it here. I also want to do some touch-up work on the red section before applying the matte coat. Then, it's onto the decals!

Not sure when I'll get the second coat done, but once I'm happy with it I'll post photos on here. Thanks for your interest.

Looking great so far.

Hello everyone,

Hope you're all doing well. Today, I actually have photos to show you of progress I made today on the project, and also a question I'll get to later.

First things first, I did some touch up work on the cab roof to get an even coat. Over the past several weeks while work on the project was on hold, some of the cab roof paint had been scratched off while the table I had been using to work on the engine was being taken up by a sewing machine and facemasks. The touch up took a solid 2 minutes to do and I could not be more proud of the results.

Besides the final matte finish, the cab roof is done, and so is the tender.

The big thing that happened today was the completion of the painting of the smokebox and exposed portions of the firebox. The final results are better than what I had expected, and it only makes me more excited to move on to the next steps of the project.

Speaking of which, recently I've been debating whether or not I should use MicroScale's waterslide Pennsy decals or Clover House's dry transfer decals. My main concern is the way Clover House markets their transfers. On their website they only show a few of the decals on a basic drawing of a 4-4-2, so I'm not entirely sure what I'll be getting once they arrive at my doorstep. On the contrary, MicroScale shows the entire decal sheet on their website, so I know what I'm getting. However, after learning the easy application of dry transfer decals, I'm more drawn to Clover House.

My question is: which Clover House set is best for a tender that's 8 1/2 inches long? The era I'm modelling is right around 1944, so the lettering would look similar to what was put on the Vision Line CC2.

Thanks again all for your interest.

@TrainMan1225 posted:

Hello everyone,

Hope you're all doing well. Today, I actually have photos to show you of progress I made today on the project, and also a question I'll get to later.

The big thing that happened today was the completion of the painting of the smokebox and exposed portions of the firebox. The final results are better than what I had expected, and it only makes me more excited to move on to the next steps of the project.

That looks great...  

Mark in Oregon

Hello everyone,

Hope you're doing well. Again, my apologies for the long wait on an update, but quite frankly not much progress has been made. I'm going to school in person full time, believe it or not, so that's been taking up a lot of my time lately.

The decals from Clover House came in the mail a while ago. While they are very nice, there is only two of the number 8 in each size, and I need four, so I'll have to order another pack.

The matte finish showed up at the same time as the decals. Honestly, I don't really have a good excuse for not working on this one, aside from being excellent at procrastinating. Hopefully I'll get to it early next week.

I'm still pondering how I'm going to remove the lettering without also removing the Brunswick Green underneath. Currently I'm thinking nail polish remover will do the trick, but I'm still very nervous to actually do it. If you have any suggestions, let me know!

Thanks again for your interest.

Nick, Testor's Easy Lift Off (ELO), is the best bet.  It's a slow acting paint remover that will remove lettering, numbers and logos without removing the underlying paint.  Lots of hobby shops carry it.  I got mine at Michaels, don't know if I was just lucky or it's something they carry regularly.  Follow the instruction and it shouldn't even effect the finish. My first use I didn't follow the instructions to the letter, removed the lettering without removing paint but did dull the finish somewhat.  Subsequent uses following the directions have yielded great results.

Late - did you brush paint the smokebox? Looks great!

@ES44AC posted:

Late - did you brush paint the smokebox? Looks great!

Yes I did, thank you!