Lionel E6 Color off?

Wow, that looks terrible.

Ah no. 

Is that black or a dark green in the picture above... 

That is prototypical.    The Painting Instructions put out by the PRRT&HS described the paint job that way,     I believe that new engines may have had a closer roof color to the tender deck but once shopped that is what is supposed to be done.   If I can find an electronic copy I will post it. 

I agree it does look strange, but it is prototypical.   I have not done ones I painted myself that way, but have seen many models done that way.

J Daddy posted:

Ah no. 

Is that black or a dark green in the picture above... 

 

It’s dark green. 

Also note that the frames and lower parts should be black, but the boiler jacket, upper parts and tender tank should be DGLE - Dark Green Locomotive Enamel which looks almost black in most cases.

Oh boy... I think they made a big mistake here...

If you look closely at the roof and tender deck, they are shown in two different shades of red. I think that's what caused the confusion of the colors.

Correctly done by Lionel. PRR Cab roof color was painted a mix of Oxide and Black. Tender deck was painted straight oxide color. Since its a brand new looking locomotive the colors are pronounced. In real life, cinders and dirt cause a more subtle difference, mostly on the cab where it almost appeared black.

A simple mix of india ink and alcohol wash will darken that brightness up...or even acrylic black paint wash. It would get dirty very quickly anyway 

I hope this post gets deleted fast. Seems like several regular posters here trashing Lionel don’t know what they are talking about. You asked if it’s prototypical, evidently so. Enjoy.

romiller49 posted:

I hope this post gets deleted fast. Seems like several regular posters here trashing Lionel don’t know what they are talking about. You asked if it’s prototypical, evidently so. Enjoy.

We don’t need a cover-up.

We need the prototypical truth revealed. And let the chips fall where they will.

A mistake on a PRR engine. BLASPHEMY!  tar and feather them then ride them out on a rail. If they do it again, get a rope.

romiller49 posted:

I hope this post gets deleted fast. Seems like several regular posters here trashing Lionel don’t know what they are talking about. You asked if it’s prototypical, evidently so. Enjoy.

Not my intent. Simply trying to get some good info on the prototype. That answer was found, so hopefully when more folks get their model and question it they will know it’s accurate. 

Don't delete good info here that confirms all is good.

I agree Chris’ intent in posting his question. I disagree with the motivations of those who replied the tender paint was wrong. If you don’t have prototypical information, don’t comment, especially so nastily.

Certainly don’t make statements like “I don’t know how this gets past Lionel’s quality control” until you wait for others with more expert opinions, like PRRK4s and PRRJim, to comment.

Jim R. posted:

Certainly don’t make statements like “I don’t know how this gets past Lionel’s quality control” until you wait for others with more expert opinions, 

My apologies, post deleted.

In all honestly however, given Lionels recent track record with paint, specifically on many of the recent Legacy diesels. Can you blame a few of us for thinking it was wrong?

Maybe some Lionel "trashers" are actually fans, maybe they actually own Lionel equipment too, and get disappointed when Lionel "drops the ball".

BTW, crow tastes terrible.

Jim R. posted:

I agree Chris’ intent in posting his question. I disagree with the motivations of those who replied the tender paint was wrong. If you don’t have prototypical information, don’t comment, especially so nastily.

Certainly don’t make statements like “I don’t know how this gets past Lionel’s quality control” until you wait for others with more expert opinions, like PRRK4s and PRRJim, to comment.

In all honesty, it appears in the photos above that at one time the cab red did match the red on the tender. could have been the sun playing apart here. Also note that some red trim on the windows would have been nice... but thats ok, it can be added.

The odd thing is the green... almost like the older M1A TMCC version that was released. Should it not be almost black?

Here is the 460 version from a good friend of mine ... not sure where the red is?

and it appears too green? We are not sure.

But still a very nice model.

J Daddy posted:

Here is the 460 version from a good friend of mine ... not sure where the red is?

and it appears too green? We are not sure.

But still a very nice model.

 

Based on the catering I believe different road numbers were given various paint schemes. I selected 68 because I love the dark red contrasting with the darker tones. 

I have three Pennsylvania steamers: Lionel Legacy M1b, MTH Premier Atlantic, and the MTH K4 Pacific. They all have the same color on the cab and tender roof.

I have never seen an O Gauge Pennsy steamer with anything but the same color on the cab and tender roof.

I don’t know if the pic Chris (the OP) posted, with brown on the cab roof, and orange on the tender roof is prototypical or not on the real engines, but I don’t think it’s what we are used to in O Gauge.

Chris the OP’s Lionel Atlantic:

My locos:

Lionel Legacy M1b:

MTH Premier K4 Pacific:

MTH Premier Atlantic:

I finally found a reference to the color guide for Steam locos.    This is reproduction of the PRR instructions from 1929 for painting locomtives.    It was published in the PRRT&HS magazine/journal in 1968.

It specifically states different colors for the cab roof and tender deck (cistern top) and different mixes for new work vs old, and for steel cab roofs vs wood.

Well, putting things in perspective, mine won’t run if the smoke unit is on. In Conventional mode; Command runs OK. 

My dealer is sending it in to Lionel for repair. They tried two other E6s and they wouldn’t run in Conventional, either.

prrjim posted:

I finally found a reference to the color guide for Steam locos.    This is reproduction of the PRR instructions from 1929 for painting locomtives.    It was published in the PRRT&HS magazine/journal in 1968.

It specifically states different colors for the cab roof and tender deck (cistern top) and different mixes for new work vs old, and for steel cab roofs vs wood.

 

Thanks for posting that attachment.  When people are saying oxide how does that color play into freight car color? Same name for same thing?  The bright red is see on many prr steam engines doesn't look like freight car color, or freight car color mixed with black.  

Oxide red is sort more orange/rust than red.   Some freight car color goes very much that way in my opinion.   Floquil used to have a color in their polyscale line called "special Oxide red" that some of us liked a lot of Pennsy freight car color.    It was a little lighter than the typical "boxcar red".    And it was not very rust/orange looking.   

I think a lot of freight car color and shades in that class were made when natural pigments were used because they were cheap and covered well.   I think iron oxide was used to make the pigment, but not sure.   

Pennsy freight car color became darker over the years.   Early stuff into the 40s and 50s was lighter and the color became more brown as more modern pigments became available.    

Also a very important point to remember, Freight equipment on the PRR was NEVER painted Tuscan Red (maroon).    that was reserved for passenger equipment.    Cabooses were freight car red, not Tuscan.    

If you go back to the WWI era, cabooses (Cabins) were bright red.  

So is the bright red on many mth prr locos incorrect? Should it be more like is seen on many Lionel prr locos (the the cab top in OP's pic)?  I guess I should migrate my questions into another thread because I am thinking of painting the roof and tender deck of my Atlantic to the prr red after all. 

Dave Warburton posted:

Well, putting things in perspective, mine won’t run if the smoke unit is on. In Conventional mode; Command runs OK. 

My dealer is sending it in to Lionel for repair. They tried two other E6s and they wouldn’t run in Conventional, either.

Dave is this a problem with the entire run?

MichRR714 posted:

Dave Warburton posted:

Well, putting things in perspective, mine won’t run if the smoke unit is on. In Conventional mode; Command runs OK. 

My dealer is sending it in to Lionel for repair. They tried two other E6s and they wouldn’t run in Conventional, either.

Dave is this a problem with the entire run?

I certainly can’t say it’s a problem with the entire run. However, we did try the three locos my dealer had and all of them exhibited the failure, so I wouldn’t be surprised, either.

Remember that we are talking about Conventional control only here. They ran OK in Command and Legacy. 

But with Conventional control, they only would run if the smoke unit was turned off. The whistle steam feature didn’t seem to cause a problem, just the regular smoke feature. 

Since very few people will run these in Conventional, I gather this is not as big a problem as it might be. On the other hand, paying $800 for a loco and not having all its features work is certainly troublesome to some people (like me).

It will be interesting to see what Lionel can or will do about the situation. If they can’t fix the problem, I will want a full refund. 

I believe it's an issue with the software in the RCMC, a number of the same model all have the same issue with conventional running with smoke.  It's an odd failure to be sure.

The real problem with the paint is apparently Lionel has been using the wrong colors for years, so we're all used to them being incorrect!   Even a 3rd Rail M1a I have has the wrong colors!

prrjim posted:

Also a very important point to remember, Freight equipment on the PRR was NEVER painted Tuscan Red (maroon).    that was reserved for passenger equipment.    Cabooses were freight car red, not Tuscan.    

If you go back to the WWI era, cabooses (Cabins) were bright red.  

Yes, colors on equipment were very era dependent.  WW1 and earlier the colors were more of a crimson, closer to what used by sold as Caboose Red, but with a bit more orange tint to it and to roof colors could be brown instead of black.